Question 2: responses continued ...
Not that there isn't something really invigorating about listening to a pack of well-educated white guys analyzing the merits of smut. But, with all due respect, doesn't the point of the exercise get kind of muddled here? A young beauty in pink hot pants bends over and shows her shaved clam on Sunset Boulevard: Do you drive by thinking about the philosophical import of prostitution, the moral implication of getting a mobile hard-on from seeing some working woman diddle her love-button for passing motorists? Or do you think, "Jesus, I wonder what that would be like," and respond to the stimulation of the situation, as opposed to morphing a simple jolt of libido into intellectual exercise? Not that there's anything wrong with the latter pursuit. Just that, after witnessing the My Brain is Bigger Than Your Brain discussion at hand — entertaining, enlightening and goddamn uplifting as it is — one really starts to wonder if he's accidentally stumbled into the Bill Bennett School of Erotic Semiotics. Intellectuals can drool over the deeper meaning of pornography, sex-work, S&M and, for that matter, crotchless panties until they're blue in the face, but maybe the point is the drool and not the meaning. Maybe the drool is the meaning . . . Reminds me of old Winston Churchill's famous remark to the House of Commons when somebody told him his fly was open: "The dead bird does not leave the nest." If your bird's still chirpin', fellas, maybe you should cut the frabba-jabba and get the fuck out of that nest between your ears.
Ian Gittler (Q2: #8 of 12)
Were we supposed to be having sex? That wasn't the invitation I received. How pretentious it is to mock the very idea of discussing porn after accepting the invitation (and money) to be part of it. "I jerk off better than you do" is what I'm hearing. What posturing. Don't worry; if you're really such a heavy cat your fans won't think you're as uncool as "those other guys." Few things are as tired as "if it feels good, do it" bravado, or elitism, especially when careers hinge on it.
Meanwhile, my sense is there are a hell of a lot of people out there wrestling with the role porn, and masturbation, play in their lives — even though it's so much less cool than, say, wrestling with heroin addiction. In terms of time, in terms of how it contributes or detracts from our sex lives with lovers, in terms of . . . the shame (isn't that in the title of this thing somewhere?) we do or don't associate with it, etc, etc, etc . . .
Whatever conclusion any given individual arrives at, I thought the whole point of this discussion was to offer validation, in some small way, to a basic concept: It's okay to have unresolved feelings about this stuff, and okay to think/talk about. Unfortunately, so far the main thing this "exercise" validates is fear of imminent ridicule for even broaching these topics. That's new.
By the way, that sizzler flashin' on Sunset was a guy. And yeah, he/she was hot.
Matt Labash (Q2: #9 of 12)
When I accepted my $60,000 stipend (plus expenses) to participate in this conversation, I thought Buttman was also set to spar for the duration. Now where is he? I miss him. Buttman can you hear me?
John Stagliano (Q2: #10 of 12)
It always amazes me how big the market is for "judging" other people's lifestyles. Talk show hosts are popular because of the fun they have dissing people.
With that in mind, I think you can get a rough gauge of the value of porno by looking at how much money people spend on it. So the first thing I consider is that lots and lots of people feel that it is worth their hard-earned money. There are always elitists who think that they know what's best for other people and will condemn them for how they live. I prefer to discuss the subject at hand.
Lots of porno is about women showing off and men watching. It's a natural, inborn thing for the female of our species to flaunt her sexual charms; it's natural for men to want to view these charms. We're born this way. Most women in the adult entertainment industry really like the "high" they get from stripping or posing nude; for them, it's a life affirming experience and they feel good about themselves while doing it. Many men find this extremely valuable. They pursue it. They spend their money on it. They come back for more despite the ridicule they might get from friends and family.
To the extent that people are open and honest about their sexual feelings, and that they have the courage to pursue them, then those people become vulnerable and sharing this vulnerability with someone else leads to real intimacy. Porn broadens people's sexual horizons because it exposes them to the ways others get off, and arouses their curiosity to see if they could also get off that way.
Of course if you feel that you already have all the answers to sexuality — and lots of people do — then porn won't help. The fact is we all have a different sexuality, but we experience that sexuality as a primal biological imperative. We viscerally feel that the way we respond to sex is the one and only right way. This often leads us to feel that if other people respond to sex differently, then there must be something wrong with them. This is because our form of cognition in this area is biological, not cerebral. We cannot recognize the way other people respond, and many people fear this affront to their view of the world and therefore judge it as wrong.
Tricia Devereaux (Q2: #11 of 12)
Hi again. I wanted to thank Matt for unofficially "welcoming" me to your group. However, I'm extremely disappointed that so many intelligent people have chosen to be self-serving (I'll get to mine later) instead of actually being a part of a round-table discussion. (Yes, pumpkin, I'm talking about you too.)
Question #2, by the way, is a very interesting one. The benefits of pornography . . . that's a tough one. I'm sure I'm younger (twenty-five) than the group members, and therefore probably don't have as much experience in life and relationships. But at this point in my life, I don't know that porn has many benefits other than letting some people be a little more open-minded about sex and their own sexuality. After all, we don't all fuck hard. My "first" was my ex-husband. Although he was uncomfortable with the idea at first, he soon loved watching porn with me. We didn't always like the same people (I'm bisexual, he isn't), but we learned a lot about what the other person liked. He had never had anal sex before, but we seemed to be watching a whole lot of it courtesy of our VCR. I asked a fellow stripper in the Midwest, who had mentioned once that she liked anal, what was so great about it. She said that it made her feel uninhibited, that it was a physical and mental challenge, something that she was anxious and excited about. Yes, it's a taboo in a lot of relationships, but I asked my ex if he would be willing to try it and he said yes (duh). It was overwhelming for me. I knew then that I wanted to experience and learn more new things. Of course, I learned most of these techniques (deep-throating, hand jobs, anal, etc.) from watching porn.
Does it teach people about intimacy or love? Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately, a lot of porn shows couples who don't have a lot of chemistry, and if guys and girls in the real world are using porn to figure out how to do it, then they aren't learning about intimacy. Intimacy is something felt from deep inside, and is not dependent on what kind of sex you're having.
Sex can be an expression of love, though. I use different sex acts and teases to show John how much I care about his satisfaction. Maybe there'd be a lot less divorce if spouses really cared about someone other than themselves. My ex sure didn't care about my sexual or personal needs.
I think I've kind of said that porn can provoke thought, along with the physical effects. I don't think porn is the best thing in the world, but I do think that it can offer people views that may be different from their own; couples can use porn to break the ice in voicing wants or needs. And people's sexuality can definitely be broadened rather than narrowed. It's not only about the bleach-blonde silicone bimbos (unless that's what you make it for yourself). It's about feeling free to do whatever you want. That's why there's so much porn out there, as I said before. It gives people a chance to look at a wide variety and figure out what trips their trigger. They can experiment with different types by popping a different videotape in or buying a different magazine.
For me, porn made me less promiscuous. I was able to experiment with a relatively small group of people (I've probably slept with less people on video or in real life than most of you who are reading this). For the average person, hopefully porn can be a way to teach them to experiment with a loved one, and maybe even learn a new thing or two that they might not have realized they'd like. For me, those new things were anal sex and bondage play (but that's for another day).
And as for my self-serving statement: Yes, Matt did his homework. John and I do have HIV. John from a personal encounter and me from porn (or so I thought). I left the industry for a year or so because I felt betrayed and cheated. Then I discovered that it hadn't been through porn, per se, but through one man in the business who had chosen to lie to me — just like it could have happened if I had been out there in the '"real world" experimenting with "normal people."
Matt Labash (Q2: #12 of 12)
While I'm anxious to get back to judging people and serving my own agenda, a brief respite is in order. I thought you kids had gone AWOL and were doing whatever porn stars do when they feel like rebelling and tire of carrying out their duties. Some of us, when we feel that way, run off and have sex with people we don't know. Since you do that for a living, I guess you guys probably join a venerable civic institution or take up macramé. Trish, when you do all that talking about handjobs and deep-throating, I don't know whether to rough you up (in print, don't get excited) or call shotgun beside you at the wrap party. In any case, welcome back kids.
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To participate in the virtual roundtable discussion yourself, visit "Men, Smut & Shame" in the VoiceBox folder of NerveCenter Message Boards.
