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He tells me it has nothing to do with me. He says I am gorgeous, that he is incredibly turned on by me, and I believe him. Still, the porn bothers me. I want to know what he gets from watching this stuff and seeing pictures of other girls. I know I should just let it go and not make a big deal of this, but I just don't know how to go about it. — SM
Dear SM,
promotion
Porn isn't for sharing. Wait. Let me rephrase that. Porn is for sharing, but it should be shared freely, not under a state of psychological duress. You can't demand access to a personal, psychologically loaded possession and expect a cheerful handover.
The intentions are noble, but let's face it: there's no way you're going to feel good about everything that's in that folder. I'm sure you'll find some of it's titillating, but the anime girls pushing mollusks up their vaginas you might regard as really fucked up.
But it's his fucked up. Not yours. Just because he enjoys looking at it doesn't mean he wants to introduce it into his reality. Sure, there may be certain scenarios he's interested in actually carrying out. But he'd rather approach it on his own terms, when he's ready, than be prodded into it by a partner.
Your boyfriend is a human and will occasionally have sexual thoughts that don't involve you. I don't know what else to say but sorry. That's the way the boner bounces. No doubt that makes you a little freaked and jealous, and baby girl, I'm with you. Years ago I gave my ex endless grief about his porn collection. Crying jags, accusations, threats. I'd tell him I was okay with everything, then change my mind seconds later.
I found the best way to deal with all this was to just give up. Adopt an attitude of, "Fuck it. I don't care anymore," and stop letting it dominate your thoughts. Can't do that? Fine, fake it. Trying is better than not trying. Keep reminding yourself that thinking about this shit is fruitless and boring. Eventually you'll get to the point where it doesn't bother you as much. You may even go the route I did and start a dirty library of your own. (Just in case you're curious, I have some crazy clips of gay dudes self-fellating, but sadly, no mollusks).
Your boyfriend's not entirely off the hook here. It's selfish of him to refuse to watch porn with you. Not everyone's comfortable with it, but he owes it to you to at least try. Create a new folder on your desktop, one that contains smut the two of you searched out together. Make a deal: you will stop bugging him about his smut cache if he agrees to be an enthusiastic participant in this new venture.
Ultimately, fearing this stuff is about as sensible as fearing killer bunny rabbits or the boogeyman. He's not in love with these porn stars, he's never going to meet these porn stars and he doesn't think about these porn stars when he's not watching them. You're the one doing that, not him. Perhaps your guy should be jealous of you instead?
| Dear Miss Information, I have a good relationship with my family. I've been dating a boy for about two years. He's smart, considerate and funny. I think I could spend many more years with him, if not my life. But my mother doesn't even like the idea of him. Since she found out about him over a year ago, she's never expressed any desire to meet him and doesn't talk about him. Her attitude is a result of cultural restraints. She immigrated to the U.S., so I can understand that adapting to American culture is sometimes hard. But I'm tired of having to lie when I'm visiting home. My normally critical siblings have already secretly met him and approved, so I think my mom would like him also. I think she may be more okay with the relationship after I graduate from college in a year, but I don't want to wait that long for her to at least acknowledge him. How do you think I should handle this? Should I just be patient and wait another year until she considers me to be more of an adult? — Dreading The Battle |
| Dear Dreading The Battle, If your mom's like my mom, she'll never consider you "more of an adult." I still get weekly lectures on smoke-detector batteries and stern warnings about the dangers of consuming hard candy while lying down. I found these two statements interesting: My mom has never expressed any desire to meet him and does not talk about him. and I'm tired of having to lie when I'm visiting home. Dreading The Battle, here's what I think happened: You started dating Boy. It took you twelve months to work up the Jujyfruits to share that info with your folks. They reacted how you expected and both you and Boy got the cold shoulder. No one likes to get the cold shoulder, and it's easier to "forget" and "not get around to" talking about Boy then it is to initiate conflict with Dad and Mom. So you didn't. Eventually this evolved into deception, but by then you'd been stifling your hurt and resentment so long it almost felt justified. Now you're wondering why Dad's not all I love Boy! and Mom's not all We need to see more of that fine young fellow! Well, duh. You're making it really freaking easy for them to continue with the status quo. Why the fuck would you mother "express a desire to meet him?" She's already getting everything she wants. Don't think she doesn't know that, too. You could wait another year, but I don't know if I'm necessarily for it. Yes it might cause less initial friction, but problems tend to grow the longer they're left to linger and as more people (such as brothers and sisters) get involved. Tell Mom and Dad that you're still dating Boy, you know they don't like it, but you respect them too much to be skulking around. Offer up some concessions, whether continuing the ruse with your crazy-ass grandma or agreeing not to move in with him without giving them tons of advance knowledge. Online research has lead me to a lot of interesting opinions regarding the issue of Asian/non-Asian couplings and dealing with the parents. With a name like "Erin Bradley" I'm sure you guys are probably shocked to learn I have mostly Scottish and Irish, not Asian, heritage. Would any of my Asian (or non-Asian) readers care to share their experiences? Be brave, little soldiers. I know it's hard to talk about anything other than Britney. |
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Commentarium (21 Comments)
When I was dating my (white) husband, it was my Chinese grandmother he had to impress first before impressing my mum. He passed with flying colours. When we were getting married 2 years ago, the only reservation my mum expressed was the language barrier- she spoke very little English and he didn't speak any Chinese. But my mum recognized that he was a good man with a good heart who took good care of me and she gave us her blessing. It's been smooth sailing since. I'm lucky that I never had to sneak around or deceive my family about my white husband. And I'm glad that my mum was wise enough to know what was important (a person with a good heart) and what was not (skin color).
Erin, I'm curious to know why you assumed "Dreading the Battle" was Asian? Nothing in her letter specified that; maybe you knew from non-published info that I don't have access to, but I'd just like to point that cultural-non-acceptance is often stereotyped as an Asian problem when, really, it takes two to maintain that sort of silence and denial.
If her boyfriend hasn't been assertive enough to encourage his "loving" girlfriend to make him a REAL part of her life, then maybe "Dreading the Battle" should think it over before really going into battle. Also, I was in an interracial relationship, and my parents are Asian, and frankly, they were quite understanding about my boyfriend(s) once he proved himself to be respectable and reliable, traits they hadn't previously associated with non-Asian men.
why do you call them little soldiers? thats rather offensive ... what are you referring to anyway?
Cultural stuff sucks! What is culture anyway? Just some people doing things differently. Can\'t have both immigrant family approval and typical American dating lifestyle. There WILL be conflict if parents are new immigrants. Secret lifestyle is ONLY way to have your cake and eat it too. Lie but make sure you are safe, leave contact info with friends in case you are dating a serial killer. ;)
get over the little soldiers thing... god sometimes people just suck... she was just trying to be funny... interesting she forsaw a battle.
Hey Erin, kudos on suggesting that couples seek out porn together. The guy I'm seeing now was stoked to find a girl who not only likes porn but has a stash of her own and insisted that we (together) watch each others porn. well, it kinda weirded us out. we're into completely diff kinds of porn even though we totally mesh in the sack. so... we decided to look for some together and our porn watching has been much better since.
When I was in college, my (Asian immigrant) mother once completely freaked out over my (Asian) boyfriend, after which I was so angry I vowed never to tell her about anyone I was dating, Asian or otherwise.
Later on, my solution when a boyfriend got serious was simply to talk to my Mom about him as if he were simply a friend, not bring up anything about a relationship, until she was comfortable about him as a respectable and responsible adult in my life. When I finally dropped the bomb later on that he was a boyfriend and not just a friend, very little freaking out ensued. I don't know if the calmness was a result of my strategy or my mother growing up a bit, but it worked nevertheless.
Maybe the guy who hides his porn actually watches freaky shit like Shalom Auslander: http://www.nerve.com/regulars/badsex/025/
I agree with JJ. It's best to present your boyfriend as a "friend" casually to her mother, it's the way i got my mom used to the idea of me "hanging out" with a nice white boy. i think the biggest thing that freaks out asian moms about american culture is the way men tend to treat women and the types of relationships they have. "boyfriend" means the american style of having sex outside of marriage which to her eyes is the equivalent of being a prostitute! (crazy,i know!)she also most likely afraid of her daughter being used and cast aside, possibly with a child out of wedlock (asian cultures tend to view this with great shame).
in my case, i brought around my boyfriend as my "friend" and gave my parents lots of time to see that he's a really great guy. we kept the P.D.A to a minimum around my parents and slowly intergrated him into our lives. first with just casual "hellos" and "goodbyes" to sitting around watching tv together and having dinner. chatting with my mom about all the nice/cute things my "friend" did helped give her opportunities to express how she felt about him without getting all defensive and worried. pretty soon she was bugging me about when we were getting married since at age 25 i was getting long in the tooth! i never called my boyfriend "my boyfriend" to my parents. he pretty much went from "friend" to "fianc
In high school I'd look at porn with my boyfriend, but usually not for erotic reasons. It was more to test limits. We'd watch the unsexy: the granny, the fatty, the cripple, naked twins...ect. I understand WHY he wouldn't want to share porn because if it's not supposed to be seen, and NOT seen then it is truely "obscene" and all the more titulating.
It may be a cultural thing. He may not want to share because she's a "good girl" in his eyes.
Pornography really has nothing to do with a person's sexual relationships. Although men who watch porn are usually better lovers.
It seems to me that SM is not being honest with herself when she phrases the porn thing in terms of her wanting to "share everything" with her boyfriend. A lot of what she said her letter seemed to me to imply that she would be the type of girlfriend who would totally freak out if she got a glimpse of what her boyfriend--not because he's watching anything particularly freaky, but because she'd compare herself to the girls and obsess over whether he wished her boobs/butt/labia were bigger/smaller/perkier etc., and why does he need that stuff when he has a real, live woman? I'd guess the boyfriend has picked up on this and trying to avoid the inevitable hours of reassurance he'd have to provide were he to allow her a peak.
"what he'd like me to look like"
"cry about how it is taking a chunk of my self-esteem and flushing it down the toilet" (if someone is concerned that their partner isn't sharing everything with them, they phrase it more in terms of "it worries me about the depth/intimacy of the relationship," not their personal self esteem
"He tells me it has nothing to do with me. He says I am gorgeous, that he is incredibly turned on by me" (if it's about him not sharing, why are these the reassurances he's giving?)
"I want to know what he gets from watching this stuff and seeing pictures of other girls."
hey GL,
i wasn't referring to the people in the letter as little soldiers, i was talking about my readers.
a term of endearment, a joke, etc.
TS - well put.
xoxo
miss info
SM should know that 99% of women in porn are women no man ever wants to hook up with in real life. It's mindless fodder, it's just passing the time. It might not even be a sexual thing. Don't try to change yourself into some "ideal" pornstar that you think he wishes you were. He probably is crazy about you exactly as-is.
Every man on the planet watches porn, or wishes he could. When asked about this by your SO, you have a heartbeat to read their eyes, figure if they're going to freak or not. If it's 'freak,' you take a deep breath, look in their eyes, and lie your ass off about never watching porn.
As Dan Savage once said, more or less, if you ask a question but threaten retribution for a certain answer, you're asking to be lied to.
Ladies, all guys, starting around 14, beat off daily. Doing this in a crowded house, often with siblings who'd delight in catching you and crowing about it, is like ninja training. In the dark days before PC's and DVD's, it was super-ninja training. Thinking you, solo, can stop a man in today's world from seeing porn is highly amusing.
It doesn't mean he doesn't love or desire you, it's a steam valve that helps him stay faithful. If it doesn't involve pain, kids, or animals, chill out.
PS - I've known a lot of guys, and seen a few porn stashes, and the vast majority of guys just want to see good-looking women initiating and enjoying sex, there's a real small market for mollusk-stuffing anime.
I'll throw in my twenty Won. Apologies if I ramble.
I was born and raised in the South, in the Atlanta area, and my first *real* love happened to be a non-Korean, being somewhat of a mutt: predominantly French/Dutch, with a smidgen of Native Peoples; I recall Cherokee, but I'm not so sure about that. (This, of course, was in high school, which only compounded matters.)
When it first started, I naturally didn't mention it to my mother; what teenaged boy would start a conversation about that, particularly about a girl he'd been friends with for a while? Heck, romantic entanglements generally aren't mentioned, I think, unless directly inquired, or if there's some sort of feeling that it might be going somewhere.
It wasn't until several months in when it came up between my mother and myself; it wasn't quite a pleasant discussion, as you could guess--mom told me to end it, I said no, and things quickly escalated to the point where I was being lectured to in Korean, while I was replying and arguing back in English. This pattern would repeat itself repeatedly over the course of the entire relationship, which lasted until the second year of college; the arguments would only end when I finally "capitulated", which entailed me saying that I would stop dating her, only to continue on in secret. At the time, I felt that little white lies of omission would keep everyone happy; it was the path of least resistance.
The sort of secrecy and compartmentalization, however, that I had to engage in for the relationship, didn't win me any brownie points with my girlfriend, either. She hated that she couldn't share special days with me if my family already had plans; birthdays were thorny issues, which often had to be covered up with the assistance of mutual friends. Even during college, when we would visit each other, I'd make no mention of where I was or fib when asked who was with me when mom called. She once even mentioned she almost felt like some sort of mistress, unable to be public about our situation around some people. Her parents, naturally, took her side on the matter; while they liked me just fine, and suggested to me that I was (almost) perfect, they didn't appreciate the fact that I made their daughter hide this sort of thing from my family.
While the relationship didn't end solely because of this, I'm quite certain that it contributed quite a bit toward the end. I couldn't fault her for it being one of her grievances, either.
It wasn't until after it was actually over that mom explained to me that, unlike my Grandmother, who opposed it based on the grounds of ethnicity, my cousin, who opposed it because he didn't think she was remotely attractive (a point which I, quite naturally, disagreed), she hated it because I was still in school; the girl was white and even by her account, a pretty good person, and that she was "acceptable". (My younger brother had always sorta liked her because she was nice.) At that age, however, I should have had my eyes on textbooks, not flesh. That there's plenty of time to start looking for romance once I was out of college and had a decent job. (As an aside, she did explain that while she had no problem with me dating whites or certain Asians, she didn't want anyone whose skin was darker than mine; for all the crap white people get for racism, you'd be surprised just how biased all Asians can be. Also, she wouldn't approve of my dating anyone who happened to be male, for two reasons she mentioned: it goes against God, and that there is no such thing as a Gaysian--like disrespect for teachers, frivolous lawsuits, and serial killers, "the Gay" is an American thing--so, like a good son, I don't even suggest that there's a part of me like that.)
I wish I could say I learned a lot from this experience; truth is, I haven't, really, not in application, anyway. In theory, I know that this sort of secrecy is a bad thing, compounding any sort of parent-child difficulties that naturally occur, and subtly but slowly polluting the romantic relationship; the feeling that the other family doesn't want to include you at all isn't a good one, but to force the partner to choose between family and significant other is a Sophie's choice. In practice, out of college and not living with family anymore, I still find compartmentalization easier--relationships are simply something I don't talk about with mom, since I still haven't been able to get past the small sense of bitterness regarding the whole affair.
Cowardly, I suppose. But keeping things on a need to know basis makes things calmer and easier for everyone. Plausible deniability, y'know, or "saving face".
A candidate for intensive family counseling if ever there was one.
Dear Miss I,
did I not get something? The Asian-aspect of "Deading the battle" escaped me; i guess. To me her mother could have immigrated to the US from anyplaceonearth
Your analysis / advice make perfect sense to me, esp. the part about her state of mind after the initial friction.
I enjoy reading your work
As first generation Asian Australian, and having dated no Asian girlfriends and experienced the 'cold shoulder' from both parents, all i can say is this:
They're old, they won't change
They will have to get on with it eventually.
be brave and bring the boy around.
even if they don't see point 1 - they won't be around forever. Shame about the inheritance though!
one key piece of information that seems to be missing is the age of the boy and the girl. the fact that she refers to him as a "boy" might be a hint. if she's over eighteen, then i'd say, grow up. u can respect ur family without worrying so much about what they think of your boyfriend. they'll probably never like any of them anyway. if she's under 18, i'd be curious about why the lack of interest. is this the first boyfriend? one of many? maybe your family is on to something. is he much older? much younger? same age? the questions keep mounting up. if she's under 18 maybe they figure, this too shall pass. and, hey, maybe it's not so bad that they're not interested. after all, they could be REALLY interested and want to know everything about your boyfriend. like EVERYTHING. which is better? which is worse?
I was born and raised in Southern California, but my parents are hardcore asian. My dad refuses to acknowledge that I'm an independent, adult woman and still sees me as his little girl. My mom, on the other hand, is totally chill and is behind me every step of the way, though she can still get uncomfortable with some of the things I believe in. I'm 20 years old and I still have a curfew, which discourages me from going out sometimes because it feels like such an effort.
Other than that, dating is the biggest non-issue in my house. It's not something we talk about, nor am I upfront about it like I normally am with other things, but I know for one thing, my dad isn't okay with me dating, and two, dating outside of my race. It's like he thinks dating will lead to marriage and then, oh no! Differences in culture and divorce! But what doesn't, these days? And who's to say I'll even get married?
Anyway, I was dating a 6'4" skinny white guy this summer, and when my dad even saw me in the same car with him, he flipped out. It was exasperated by other events, but still, even that could flip the switch. My dad is always at work and I never bring boys home, so there have never been any run-ins besides that one. I guess just seeing it firsthand instead of imagining it was enough for him to burst a vessel. His grip on me is still so tight albeit much looser than it has been even 6 months ago, but it still gets hard to breathe sometimes. Who knows when he'll finally let go.
"culture is not your friend" -Terence McKenna
Now you say something