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October 3, 2007
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Today's Miss Info is all about hot bartenders and friends. Got an awesome best friend? A deep, abiding regard for the person who pours your shots? Are they single? Want to hook them up? I'll post one eligible single per day on my MySpace page for the week of Oct. 8-12. Visit my MySpace blog for information and instructions. Will they find love? Or just a bunch of stupid band invites? We don't know, but it'll be interesting. Good luck!
Dear Kind of Insecure, You don't really go into all the ways you're acting out. I just want to urge you to take a quick look at yourself and all the ways you're adding croutons to the crap salad before I start in on your boyfriend. Now. People do what they do because they're deriving a payoff from their actions. It's the basis for all human behavior and one of Dr. Phil's Ten Life Laws. (Go ahead and hate, it's okay. Just know that you're being really predictable for your demographic, and sometimes wisdom comes from big bald-headed Texas sources). Something is making it worth it for him to keep going to this bar, even though there are other, less controversial drinking venues. What are these payoffs? Put on your reading glasses, Kind of Insecure, I've got a whole slew: 1) It strokes his ego. He's not used to female attention. The only females he sees on a regular basis are you and the marginally attractive woman who works at the Wendy's near his office park. 2) It makes you jealous, and that makes him happy because he likes you. He's doing the classic salesman schtick — the post-close — making the buyer feel happy about what she's already bought. 3) It makes you jealous, and that makes him happy because he doesn't like you. Well, not wholesale doesn't like you. Maybe he just wants to cause trouble. Did you just say earlier that you've been fighting a lot? 4) It keeps him from having to confront the bartender. Raise your hand if you can't get enough awkward conversations. Yeah, me neither. He doesn't have lurid fantasies about boning her. He's just being lame and avoidant. 5) It's a way to keep the relationship on hold. You've got a golden retriever and an upright canister vac. This is not a three monther. It's motherfuckin' Go Time and this pseudo-affair is a symbol of his hesitation. Coming to a resolution will require: 2) You ditching any immature, jealous behavior and unreasonable expectations. Take some halfway measures — for instance, he only goes a set number of days a week — while working on the underlying causes. How to do that? Make a concerted effort to ease up on the fighting. Have more sex. Making sure you have two fun talks for every serious one. Sometimes the best way to get at a problem is to approach indirectly. You've talked about this so much it's not going to get better until you start to ignore it. Once you start relaxing around each other, you won't focus so much on this issue.
Talk to your boyfriend and see if you can get him to spell out exactly what behaviors he considers inappropriate. Bear in mind, I'm not talking about a "tell me about what bothers you so I can tell you why it shouldn't bother you" type discussion. Treat it like a gentle exploration. (Does that last phrase sound like it belongs in a geriatric ass play workshop, or is it just me?) "Hey Josh, would you be upset if Jim and I went to the apple farm?" "Would it bother you to see Jim hug me, or is something like that okay?" If your boy pulls either of the above, you've got a decision ahead of you. You can: A. Let Joshy know that his behavior is unacceptable and he's going to have to try harder to compromise, or B. Drop the friendship with Jim entirely. It's instinctive to call the person who dumps the best friend an asshole, but I don't know. Relationships can't always function on directives like "Fair is fair!" and "You can't tell me what to do!" I wish they could. We could dump someone and call in PriceWaterhouse as auditors. There are some people who are willing to sacrifice a friendship (or a town, country, family member, job, etc.) for what they believe to be their one, true love. Others choose to hold on to what they have and try their luck finding their True Love, Part II. Keep in mind that even a best friendship involves risk. What if you give your boy the boot, then two years later have a falling out with Jim and find yourself pining for Josh. If I were you, I'd consider bailing on old Josh, especially if he continues acting stubborn and uncooperative. It's early in the relationship. Opposite-sex best friends are so common now. It won't be hard to find someone you dig who's more receptive to the idea. |
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©2007 Erin Bradley and Nerve.com
Commentarium (22 Comments)
>>> "(Go ahead and hate, it's okay. Just know that you're being really predictable for your demographic, and sometimes wisdom comes from big bald-headed Texas sources)."
"(Does that last phrase sound like it belongs in a geriatric ass play workshop, or is it just me?)"<<<
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
(You are parenthetically hilarious today, Lady Miss E! P.S. -- When is the comments section going to accept line breaks? BECAUSE OCD TOLD ME TO ASK.)
When one party is making a large sacrifice in a relationship, it's best that it's for a good reason and that it's voluntary. Asking someone to betray their friends and family out of insecurity isn't a promising sign.
To josh's girlfriend
i may be hyper sensitive having recently gotten out of a relationship that was a bit controling. but josh sounds a little controling.
for me it started like this - i don't like friend X, you spend too much time with them, he/she makes me uncomfortable. it ended with "you're stupid, if you go on that business trip our relationship is over" and a bunch of other nasy threats. and me realising that i had spent the past several years avoiding anything that might give her reason to suspect that i wasn't madly in love with her (which i was) and that much of my life had fallen by the wayside. in the end it was too high a price for me to pay.
so look around and see if there are any other controlling signs. if so - run. now. before it gets harder to leave
wow.. what are your certifications because you should seriously be a professional therapist if not one already. the advice for the jealous girlfriend was powerfully insightful and something that most friends/listeners do not have the
She's getting something from Jim that she's NOT getting from Josh. She needs to find out what that is, and decide if she can actually get it from Josh, but hasn't tried 'caz she's already getting it from Jim. Try to get it from Josh. Can she get along w/o it from either(drop Jim,keep Josh)?
For someone like Girl Friend, semantics can make a lot of difference. If I were her boyfriend, I'd wonder why she was continuing to refer to her other friend as her "best friend." After all, Girl Friend and I are serious, and (even though I may not be conscious of it) as the boyfriend I am angling for that "best friend" spot. As long as that "best friend" spot continues to remain occupied, I'd feel as if there was no real chance for me to have the kind of relationship I desired. However, if she instead refers to him as "My good friend, X," it would not be nearly as intimidating.
Girl Friend, this is both simple and not simple. The simple part is that this is about control. You are about to establish the pattern for whatever time you have with "Josh." Does he get to dictate who your friends are, or does he accept you for who you are? The not simple part is setting up ground rules. You should not allow Josh to dictate to you, any more than you should be able to dictate to him regarding his friends. The condition, however, is that "Jim" cannot have a private relationship with you; that would be disrepectful of your relationship with Josh. Jim has to accept who you are, which includes being Josh's girlfriend. That means that Jim has to spend at least some time with you and Josh (maybe a double date would be a good plan). My practice has been to say to my girlfriend and to my female friends (including a number of ex's), you have to accept me and my life, or get out. I'm treating you all with love and respect, and if that's not good enough for one of you, then I can't be in your life.
Girl Friend needs to dump her jealous BF's ass. She can't hang out with friends who happen to be male? Are you kidding me? What century is this? Jealousy like that needs to be nipped in the bud.
Insecure:
With all due respect to Dr Phil, I don't buy Life Law #6: There is no reality, only perception. Phisics is real, chemistry is real, and biochemistry are real. And going to a bar every day after work is something to think carefully about. I don't know a single person that has two drinks every day (the heart healthy dose), and has continued to have two drinks a day for over a decade. Either people began to drink more or they began to drink less. Alcohol (and tobacco) are the most lethal drugs in our society, by far. I'm still a skeptic about second hand smoke, but still another consideration.
I like that you BF gets out of the house and has a social life in the evenings when you are working. He isn't going straight to the couch and flipping on the TV. I can understand being a 'regular' but every night? What about a coffee house? I don't want to come across as all moralistic -- I like bars and I enjoy social drinking. And, there were periods in my misspent youth when I spent too much time in bars, without having any real problems.
If this doesn't apply to you or your BF, then great. Sorry to sound like a prig. Maybe it something to think about.
Girlfriend:
Not enough info, but your new BF is caring and wonderful. Except for this one little thing. But with relationships, it's always something. How is sex with the caring and wonderful guy? I would be more optimistic if you mentioned chemistry. If you are having a really hot, physical relationship, then the BFF is just something to work out. Warm and caring are fine. But do you feel passion for him? Do you want to see him as much as possible, and think about him when he isn't around? But if you would really prefer to hang out with your old pal, then don't waste any more time with this relationship. And If you have to think too hard about this, then you have answered your question. Its as simple as that.
Insecure - Actually, it might not even be a real crush. Maybe the bartender just tells every "safe" guy she has a crush on him, to get a bigger tip. It's been known to happen. But let's say it is real, and it makes you mad. In that case, you need to figure out why. I'm not saying it's wrong to feel this way, just that if you can't explain why it makes you feel like this, he's just going to assume that you're irrational, he likes drinking with the regular people he knows, and if he were to switch bars, you'd just come up with some reason to hate the new one. So let's see. If you really thought this situation was safe, and he'd never cheat on you, what does it matter what the bartender fantasizes about when she goes home to her vibrator after work? After all, you have the real deal! Maybe you're worried he'll use the situation to manipulate you, like, "If I had married that girl at the bar instead of you, she wouldn't be making me paint our entire home pink like this." Or maybe five years down the road, after you've had a big argument about how he picked the wrong shade of pink and has to start all over again, he'll head out, but instead of going to the hardware store, he'll go to the bar to vent his frustrations to people he knows, and his best friend won't be there to keep him honest, and maybe he has a few drinks too many, and there's this hot gal with a crush on him there that has lavished nothing but praise on him over the years, and then, well, you know. Figure out what's making you nervous, and maybe you can both come up with a solution.
your advice to 'kind of insecure' is total b.s. - this guy doesn't goto his regular bar to get a rise out of his girlfriend or to have his ego stroked - he goes there because it's his place, space, and where he gets to see his friends. jeez, just because women need their narcissism sated by their every fart doesn't mean men do.
I'm surprised nobody has told the GF to go to her BF's "regular bar" and stare the bartender down. Sounds like the bartender's the problem, to me. Start showing up with the boyfriend when possible, just to let her know what time it is.
Miss Info, you're off-based with "Kind of Insecure". I agree people only do things for pay-offs (go read "Choice Theory" by Glasser). But nearly all your reasons assume his reason for going to the bar are about the bartender, or the relationship. You assume he's INTO the bartender being into him, for some reason. Or you assume he goes to the bar to make a commentary about the relationship. I think "Insecure" is so insecure she's MAY be trying too hard to make the bar mean something about the relationship. How long has he gone to that bar for? He likes it? His friend likes it? How many other people does he know there? Maybe he doesn't really give much of a crap about the bartender. Sure, I'm sure he doesn't forget that she's into him (how could he, with his g.f. going insane all the time about it), & maybe the flattery is a SMALL plus for him going. But couldn't it also be that his main reasons for going are...he likes it. His friend likes it. He knows other people there. We just know too little here. Here's a HUGE reason it could be about the relationship which you missed...maybe her unreasonable jealousy, insecurity, and acting insane about it are pushing him away. Maybe he wants to get away from her some. Maybe he is even acting somewhat out of spite. If the relationship is so good, and he would never cheat, then it's time she let go the jealousy, and he'll either keep going a lot, or not, it shouldn't matter. She's turning it into a problem, and she will succeed at making it one if she continues.
Girlfriend does indeed need to dump her boyfriend's ass. Miss Info says, "If your boy pulls either of the above, you've got a decision ahead of you." I will tell you what that decision is (again, if he pulls that shit when you call him on it). Your decision is, A. Dump that insecure asshole as fast as you can and run, don't walk, away from the whole thing. Or B.: stay with him, hurting your best friend immensely, isolating yourself from your support network and making yourself more dependent on him, reinforcing the idea that his jealous, controlling behavior is ok by you, and setting yourself up to be miserable and emotionally abused in the future. And no, I don't think that last is hyperbole: you could aruge that THIS is emotionally abusive; and in any case, this is where it often starts.
hey GC - "jeez, just because women need their narcissism sated by their every fart doesn't mean men do..." - wow, you're pretty fucking misogynist, there buddy. perhaps you'd feel more comfortable over on maxim?
About Kind of Insecure, why do your numbered remarks all diminish the guy. Heres a few of mine.
1)Maybe hes been going to this bar for years and its where all his friends frequent.
2)Its walking distance to the his house.
3)Hes not yet sick of the food.
4)Hes been going there since before he got together with this chick and since shes isn't interested in quitting her night job that is probably in the food service industry (which carries its own temptations)so that that they can have a normal relationship.
i'm in a similar situation to insecure, but i think reading what our advice columnist friend, and the feedback here, helps. the boyfriend may not be going out every night because of the girlfriend or to make a statement about the relationship. he may just enjoy being social, enjoy the atomosphere of the bar, or feel as if it's a second home that he feels comfortable in and can get some things finished in. i have a coffee house that i can get infinitely more things accomplished in than staying at home with my boyfriend. i think that em is right about feeling comfortable with each other too - unless you calm down about the bartender who likes him, this is going to become an issue in your relationship that will evolve and cause so many problems it's not even funny. trust me, i'm there right now. if you know he's not going to cheat, if he never has and never has given you a reason to think he would or has, then another woman being flirtatious with him is part of life. if they don't hang out together or see each other outside of the bar, it is probably not a big deal and nothing to worry about. it won't go any farther than some innuendo over a bottle of beer, if it even goes that far - otherwise i doubt he'd have told you about it. try hanging out there with him, try talking to the bartender who likes him to see what she's like, show him and her that you're awesome and if she's smart, she'll be supportive and soon be asking why you aren't at the bar with him because she likes you. if that doesn't work than she's probably a few slices short of a loaf, and your bf knows that.
if there is flirting outside of the bar enviroment, or if they are hanging out outside of the bar and you've seen some behaviour that was a little overly flirtatious and made you uncomfortable, than yes, you have a problem, you need to tell your man that you find that disrespectful to you and your relationship with him, and set the expectation that it changes. if it doesn't, talk to the girl, tell her that you know nothing physical is happening, but her behaviour is making you uncomfortable and you think she should ease off before things get really messy.
Re: Kind of Insecure. I think the obvious missing information is does he go by himself or with with others and, was this a regular gig before and/or during the initial wooing of Insecure? Other than her imagination, has he given any indications of dissatisfaction? And, most importantly, has she discussed this with him or just silently fuming? One mans perspective.
Anyone who begins with "My boyfriend and I are very happy" and then proceeds to say why they are not happy needs to move out and get some grow up therapy. It is hard to read an entire email from someone like that without falling asleep. Doncha think?
Girl Friend might want to consider whether she could respect a husband who required that amount of or that kind of sacrifice from her.
Now you say something