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August 6, 2008
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Have a question? Email erin@nerve.com. Letters may be edited for length, content and clarity.
Dear Confused in Another Country, Hard to make a call on this one without getting the other side of the story. From what it sounds like, he's not that serious about getting serious and he's using the housemate as a means of delaying. Then again, he may view the four months you call "happy" as full of fighting and drama and bullshit. He never knew how hard it was going to be having a new girlfriend come live in his space. He cares for you a lot. He's just not ready to make a call yet. I'm going to leave you to work this one out more or less by yourself, but with a few questions to consider: 1. Are your limits fair? Rents are high and I'm sure you've read on a cave wall somewhere that the economy is in the shitter. Does your irritation with his roommate have real, tangible roots — or are you more worried about what your friends and family are going to think? If so, what are you aspiring to? Do what works. Let the dillhole with the Fendi bag and the Ferrari worry about keeping up appearances. 2. Why didn't you discuss this before? Why you failed to settle the roommate situation and set up a rough timetable for living solo and/or getting engaged/married is totally beyond my understanding. It's not like this was a whirlwind cross-continent romance. You had a year and a half to plan. The fact that you didn't is a sign that one or both of you was experiencing some indecision. 3. What will his roommate moving out actually mean? That he's willing to make a compromise? That he wants to get hitched? That you have an extra room you can turn into an art studio or something? Since you didn't do the talking before, do the talking now. Think about what you want and why you want it and be willing to bend a little. There might be a way to get what you want without chucking around the ultimatums. His willingness to consider new solutions will be a better indicator of his level of commitment than a backed-into-a-corner decision. Those usually backfire.
Dear Consummate Buddy, Jealousy. Beyond that, your peers are getting older. Social calendars slow down and become less diverse as we age. A small, tightly-knit group — usually composed of a few same-sex friends/coworkers, spouse and immediate family — takes the place of a larger, more loosely assembled group of male and female acquaintances, what marketing dorks call a "tribe." It's why you'll never see anyone over the age of forty with mixed-sex company in your average TV commercial. Viewers get confused. So do husbands and wives. Not everyone is as evolved as you when it comes to gender roles, Consummate Buddy. Sexual jealousy is one of the most difficult emotions to repress. For some, that angry hot nausea one gets from seeing their cutie pumpkin angel talking to that skanky piano-store clerk is hard-wired. Especially if she's a cute, confident and single piano-store clerk. You get where I'm going with this, Consummate Buddy? Some of these wives and girlfriends might really want to like you, feel guilty about not liking you, or not know what to do about not liking you. You might think we should all be above this by now, but you'll have to accept it as the reality. Once you do, you'll start to see them less as the mean gatekeepers standing in the way of your dinner dates and more as real, very fallible people. This, in turn, will make it easier to befriend them — a more workable long-term approach than trying to pit your friends against their partners. Is it fair that you have to kiss up to someone who's been cold to you, or worse, openly hostile? No. Is it fair that you have to feign interest in someone with whom you have nothing in common, just because your friend can't be bothered to grow a set and tell her to fuck off? I'll go with "no" on this one as well. But being right is not as important as getting the desired result. Change your approach — not so much that it makes you feel like a total sell-out, just slightly. Don't be shocked if you find yourself enjoying the new additions to your social circle. Some of my best friends are ladyfolk, and I was a hardcore guy's girl all through high school and college.
©2008 Erin Bradley and Nerve.com
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Commentarium (12 Comments)
"Confused in Another Country" mentions nothing about WHY it's so urgent that this housemate should move out. Plenty of couples have housemates right up until they get married, and sometimes even afterward. If there's a problem with the housemate's behavior, that's one thing, but otherwise it just seems kind of strange that this should be such a big issue. She's clearly asking her boyfriend to pointedly choose her over his friend, and I almost wonder whether it's coming from some weird neurotic impulse to "test" him. Those kinds of ultimatums never end well.
Did you miss her statement, "I'm moving out now, and he's okay with that."? Long distance relationships can be really great because of the wanting, the tension, and when you get together everyone's on their best behavior. Sounds to me like once he started seeing her every day, every night, and got the full spectrum of her personality/behavior, he quickly got over her. To me, if someone's "okay" with my moving out, it's the beginning of the end. Nowadays (I'm older) I prefer to move on sooner than later.
Dear Consumate Buddy,
Erin is completely right on this one. As a very happily married man who has always had close women friends, I can ruefully tell you that the answer to the question "Can women and men just be good friends" is a resounding no. I used to argue from my own example that the answer was "yes", but given the nature of close friendships, given the time and the opportunity, they turn sexual. The only way to prevent that without losing the relationship is for you to become good friends with the woman. That seems to activate both parties' sense of reality and its consequences.
Sadder but wiser guy.
I've had a few consummate buddies, and I've probably been one as well. At some point, you have to realize that your "best friend" is way closer with his girl (or boy) friend than to you and accept it. The consummate buddies I've met generally have commitment issues, and try to satisfy their repressed longings by pretending they're more connected with their friends than they really are. This is fine, usually, until one of the people finds a real connection they can give themselves to fully. This isn't to say people should ditch their friends because they found something better, but into their late 20's people start (wisely, in my opinion) to prioritize, and the friends who stick around are ones who don't obsess over the past and can be supportive of who their friend is now.
She did say he was okay with her moving out, but it sounds like this was after some period of [unexplained, to us at least] ultimatum. I don't think we really get a clear picture of what living together means for the relationship from either side, and that makes it really difficult to understand/guess his motivations for the actions she's described. That said, I don't think I'd boot my roommate out of my place for a girlfriend, after a year or not. Unless it's a five year lease or we absolutely have to get married right away, I can't imagine that we couldn't wait a little while to have permanent privacy. [Also, what if the housemate found the house and her boyfriend just tagged along for rent sake? Bad form booting the first finder.]
Confused in Another Country...A similar situation occurred with my boyfriend and his then-roommate. They'd been living together for about a year in Roommate's house and after Roommate met Girlfriend, things got super serious super fast. After a few months, the GF pretty much had moved in and told me she was wanting Roommate to have a discussion with my bf about him moving out because she wanted to move in. I didn't say anything to my bf because I figured it wasn't really my business and Roommate had already told my bf himself that he was thinking of asking his gf to move into his house. The problem was he never officially had a sit-down discussion with my bf about the logistics, dates, etc and neither did his gf, believing it was their issue even though she was the one pushing the whole thing. End of the story? Roommate and my bf, like sallies, never communicated and it got down to Roommate giving bf a weekend to move out because gf's stuff was on its way in. The two of them, best friends since they were 10 years old, stopped speaking to one another for about a year and the friendship is still pretty much on the rocks. I'm friends with the gf, now Roommate's wife, but I'm still sad the boys never got their act together. Communication is key. If possible, have a discussion with your bf first and then with bf and his housemate and discuss specifics like adults.
"Is it fair that you have to feign interest in someone with whom you have nothing in common, just because your friend can't be bothered to grow a set and tell her to fuck off?"
This sentence from Miss Info and Consummate Buddy's assumption that the significant others must be insecure and jealous are obnoxious. I feel bad for women who view other women with such contempt.
I think I am like Consummate Buddy, but without the contempt. I am friends with both men and women who share my interest in outdoor activities, and if one of my guy friends has a girly girl spouse who is completely different than I am, I still show her genuine respect and friendliness.
consummate buddy:
the first question I'd ask is: how many of these long-time friends of yours now have children? i'm a (somewhat) new father of a two year old. I am constantly surprised by how many of my single friends simply don't understand that they can't call me up at 5pm and ask if i want to go for a run at 7pm. Or, I'm amazed by how many single friends think that if they ask me to come to their friday-night party on wednesday night that I'll have to say "no" immediately. Leaving my wife to watch my little one while I go and enjoy time with my friends is a no-no. I'm evolved and treat women as equals. My wife and I share child-rearing. If you want me to come out with you next friday night, I have to solve two dilemmas:
1.) is this a burden on my partner?
2.) if my partner is coming with me, can we find a baby-sitter and can we afford to pay a baby-sitter (at least $50 for 3 or 4 hours--and that's as cheap as it gets) AND spend money for the party.
One more thing: your friends not hanging with you may not have anything to do with spousal jealousy. It may be that each friend has found the great love of his life. maybe he likes spending time more with his wife than with you. cruel, I know. or, maybe it's something mundane like, double the family commitments when you get married--maybe i want to visit my parents or sister 1 weekend each month. my spouse probably wants to do that, too. ergo, 2 weekends are now gone. and, after all that family time, maybe your friends just want some down/alone time.
maybe.
Am I the only one who sees this from the housemates point of view. Unless your boyfriend actually owns the house, you should be the ones to move out in any such situation and let the housemate find someone to take your rooms. If he does own the house then it sounds like his friend was wary of moving in to start with and was promised security. Demanding that he move out, with all it's accompanying trauma will quite certainly end the friendship. As this is likely taking place in NY of SF or somesuch place where nice semi-affordable accommodation is hard to come by (but even if it's not) you're airy "he won't be living on the streets" suggests a level of selfish entitlement that should easily explain why you're boyfriend is OK with you moving out. He possibly feels like he's dodged a bullet. You don't demand that someone leaves their home because you want to move and don't feel like sharing.
Even if your boyfriend is (still) serious about you (which would be rather unwise of him), honouring your word and your commitments are traits that should be seen as positive. You would want him to keep his promises to you after all.
WHY did he promise the roommate he would never ask him to leave? "We'll be buds forever!" is a different barrier from donating a kidney.
Hi-
I like your response to Tomboy. My experience:
I had a very rich bi college friend (I'm straight since Cary Grant died :) who finally figure out what his proclivities were, met this older woman and married her in a bit of a whirlwind. The wedding was at lahdidah Southwest Harbor Maine - the Rockefellers have their custom Hinkley across the sound from their home. I was dating his younger sister at the time and that was cool - she was an affectionate and passionate Tomboy.
Anyway after the wedding I asked when we were all getting together down at his loft in SOHO for more fun. He said that his bride said that she really didn't want to associate with any people who weren't married. She felt it was inappropriate. I guess I was about 25 and she was about 35. I can tell you that I NEVER did anything with him except sail, drink beer, and tell tall stories. No monkeybusiness.
Wonder how long that marriage lasted?
I'm a married guy with plenty of female friends. How do I keep this from being a problem? I don't spend time with them that I should be spending with my wife.
Now you say something