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September 10, 2008
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Email your questions to erin@nerve.com. Letters may be edited for length, content and clarity.
Dear Shoulda Moved,
I've dealt with this one before. The guy who was masturbating to his ex and felt weird about it. (Interesting side note: The domain name I referenced in my answer, "TotallyNormalSluts.com" is now registered, with "What you need, when you need it," as the tagline.) Anyway, to reinforce what I said earlier, what a boring James Dobson-friendly world it would be if fantasy was confined to only those whom we truly respect and love. Sometimes we find ourselves turned on by people who hurt us (exes), people we know we shouldn't be thinking about (bosses and brothers-in-law) and people we don't even know (celebrities and historical figures). It's totally fine, as long as you stay on the right side of the law. What turns you on is a complex formula. Some of it you'll understand and be able to draw inferences from — you like guys with blonde hair because of the hot next-door neighbor you used to play doctor with when you were a kid — and some you won't. I have no idea why I'm still sexually attracted to Al Pacino. I mean, look at him. For Chrissakes. He's a hundred years old. Attempting to make that follow a logical pattern is futile. It's random, like dreams. You don't judge yourself for those, do you? No. You celebrate them and adopt an attitude of wonder: "Holy shit? Why was that spatula taking elocution lessons from that frog?" Can you see yourself taking that same attitude toward your ex fantasies, Shoulda Moved, and your new attraction to the dark-n-beardy?
If not, it's quite normal to date someone similar in appearance to your ex. (Readers, you want to chime in here?) I know I've done it. Don't worry about getting stuck in a rut. If your type has changed once, it'll change again. Otherwise, just go with it. As long as these dudes aren't fucking you over emotionally, like your ex, who cares? P.S. If you don't have the dough to move to Corsica, I've found that Jewish boys tend to be on the furry/swarthy side and are a nice substitute.
Dear Jim Beamed,
While high on cool factor, dating a bartender can be problematic. There're odd hours, attractive people, the widespread use of sex appeal to boost your dollar — and plenty of alcohol. Anything can happen. And often, it doesn't. Yeah, I realize. Not a typo. Look, I used to work in a bar. A relatively cool one by Midwestern standards, with lots of young people. Yes, there's flirting. Yes, there are come-ons. Yes, there are customers offering to buy you shots. People are drinking, dancing, debauching and generally acting silly. All that's hot, right? [Insert loud Family Feud noise here.] Wrong. People act like idiots when they're imbibing. They think they're charming, funny and clever when actually they're really obnoxious. Even the ones who are trying really hard not to be.
"That's okay. I know you never drink like this, Johnny Customer. You've already said it. Eight times. Yes, I'll clean up your chicken-wing remnants and broken Corona bottle. Yes, you're still a cool dude, dudebro. No, put away the Blackberry. Aaaand the Bluetooth. Yep. That's right. You don't have to apologize to my mother..." Now play out that same scene. Night after night. It gets really mundane after a while. My advice is to keep an open mind and remember that you're hotter and cooler than 99% of his clientele. It's just a job. A temporary one, probably. Don't stress before you need to. You can work anywhere and be a cheating asshole. Use the weird scheduling as an excuse to solidify your friend group or blast your pecs at the gym. I love me some night sweatin'. It's so much better when everyone's gone. Basically, anything you can do not to hang out at his workplace is the goal. Even if you say you're not there to visit him ("I'm not jealous! I just want to hang with my girls! In this particular bar! During the time he's working! Which happens to be right now!) you still come off like a bit of a loser. Don't be surprised if he doesn't want to hang out at the bar — his or others— in his off time. Sometimes it's hard to relax in that kind of environment for us bar/restaurant folk. I still find myself critiquing other people's technique and I'm over a decade out. Crack open a bottle of wine at home or go out with your friends if you need to have an ethanol-based beverage in your body.
Dear Captain Karma, Don't send me to Yanni hell for telling you this, but I've given out fake numbers. I know it's immature, but my confrontation skills are variable at best and I feel put on the spot. I'm only ballsy in certain situations. I have no problem calling someone out if they cut in line in front of me at the deli. But if a guy asks me out, or worse — invades my space and acts gross and gets up in my shit — well, I'm not always composed enough to give him what-for. Instead, I give out a number.
I'm proud to say I've finally stopped doing that and now only give out my email. Inevitably, I'll get a guy that says, "Aww, you're not going to email me back," to which I think, A., you might be right, but you shouldn't think that's appropriate for discussion, and B., why would I want to go out with a guy who's so urgent and defeatist? Did he just get out of prison? Is he a sex addict? Am I the only girl he's going to get to see all evening? The pick-up game is about economics. You want to create the illusion of scarcity.
Demanding a phone number when a person gives you an email or calling them in front of them to verify the number's veracity has the exact opposite effect. If you're tired of all the fakeouts, there's a cure for that. Give women your number. Finally, calm the fuck down. I realize approaching people is tough, but you're doing it wrong if you have such a high rejection rate that you feel like you need to issue a blanket statement in a sex-advice column. There are better things to get angry about than fake numbers. I heard somewhere there's an election going on...
©2008 Erin Bradley and Nerve.com
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Commentarium (17 Comments)
Ok, come on; advising a guy to give his number is terrible. I never call guys who give me their numbers, and neither do my friends. Why? It shows the guy is too lazy to pursue you, remember your name, bother to call himself. PLUS you never know if he remembers who you are two days later or if he gave his number to two hundred other girls. Additionally, it kind of counts as asking him out which really; just changes the whole dynamic of asking a girl out in the first place. Email? Far better idea.
I like it. Gives me more control.
"Holy shit? Why was that spatula taking elocution lessons from that frog?"
Miss Info, I think I love you. That is all.
RK, aren't you worried at all about the guys who might pursue too zealously? I don't think I ever point-blank asked a woman I wanted to go out with for a phone number. It seemed intrusive and potentially stalkerish. I'd always offer my number (or e-mail) first, but I'd follow up by saying, "If you prefer, I'm also happy to call or write you first -- it's whatever you want."
Re: Captain Karma
Dear Miss Information,
I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't address to Captain Karma that by directing his irritation on women giving false numbers, he's not assuming responsibility for himself. I hear general complaints like this all to often and am getting quite sick of the "blame it on the woman" or, "blame it on anyone but yourself" mentality that somef men have.
Otherwise, I enjoy your column and look forward to the next one.
Captain Karma, Dude, change your attitude and gain some knowledge. We are men. It
Bitches will screw you CK, one way or another!
RE: Giving out numbers when you're not interested...
It's a cop-out, and essentialy a way to avoid conflict (and a guy glaring at you from across the bar all night). But it takes two to tango.
I've been in situations where it's just easier. EX: My friend is flirting with a guy and his sleazy/drunk buddy decides that he and I should be hitting it off as well. I've given up my number at times like those to keep the peace.
But I think that all of this can be avoided. Guys, pay attention to her, and your chances of success will skyrocket. Wait until you've been talking for a WHILE before you even think of asking. If she's smiling, giving you positive body language, laughing, talking, and responsive, then it makes sense to ask for her number. If she's looking over her/your shoulder, not making much eye contact, closing off... she doesn't want to give you her number, so don't ask!!
Also, please never, ever do the immediate call-back "just so she'll have your number, too." It just looks insecure.
JO--as a woman I completely concur, especially on the issue of talking to her for a while before asking for her number. I can tell when a guy is talking to me because he's actually enjoying it and interested in the conversation and when he's talking to me because he's just making an obligatory few minutes of small talk before he asks for my number, so he can know whether or not he should move on to his next "target." (Are you listening, FYI?) The former scenario is enjoyable and intriguing and makes me want to get to know the guy better, the latter scenario just makes the guy look some how desperate and arrogant at the same time. Maybe this notion is quaint nowadays in the age of online personals and speed dating, but, to me, dating should follow naturally from good conversation and genuine interest in each other as people, instead of just being a numbers game. So if you like a woman, forget your numbers and make a little investment of time. We know the difference.
There ain't that much laugh-out-loud on this site, but this...
"I have no idea why I'm still sexually attracted to Al Pacino. I mean, look at him. For Chrissakes. He's a hundred years old."
...made me laugh so as to annoy my co-workers. More than usual. I think more than anything it's the punctuation. That extra period between "look at him" and "For Chrissakes."
Ha. Thanks for that.
OH, and about the bartender thing, it'd have been better of you'd given advice based on your male coworkers' behavior from your bar days. Cuz I bet they were fucking the clientele on a very regular basis. All the guys I know who are bartenders do. So to the girl, it's simple: dating a bartender is like dating a musician, but with a little more money. They get to fuck whenever they want, so they do. Don't expect to be monogamous, and you'll probably have a decent time. Since the reader is already revealing herself as the jealous type, she'll be better off keeping the 'tender at a distance and focus in on her fellow patrons. Maybe the pudgy white guy with a beard and glasses sitting with his buddy at that side table.
LT, Don
Dating is a numbers game????
This entire "process" is directly out of the old school sales techniques. This stuff is totally recycled. Certain types of sales jobs are, in fact, numbers games. However, I these aren't the kind of jobs people aspire to. You are "selling" yourself like they used to sell encyclopedias. I suppose if you ( a guy) really HAS to get laid, then go for it. However, if you want to pursue relationships with women using a sales "model", why not move up a notch from door to door encyclopedia salesmen to investment banking (who basically buy and sell corporations). Why not think a little bit about target marketing (for example, maybe an art museum would be a better place to meet women then a bar), relationship selling, etc. Brute force numbers selling is older than Al Pacino. It just seems ironic that dating/hookups are adopting ancient sales techniques -- speed dating=trade show, for example. Sales people want relationships. They want "share of wallet" -- i.e. all their customer's business (monogamy). I'm far from an expert at either sales or relationships, but love isn't a numbers game.
I used to be terrified of approaching strange women in public places, like bars or clubs. Strange, since I'm confident and outgoing. The reason was that I had a couple of close female friends, who would mock and ridicule guys who approached them. I was afraid that I would get the same treatment from other women if I tried to chat them up. There's a reason that most guys who will approach women are unsuitable for dating, and that reason is because the good guys aren't willing to go through the ringer.
I never give out my number to guys I don't know. I take his and if I say I'm going to call, I do. It would be nice if men could a) reciprocate that courtesy and b) recognize that women are often placed in a slightly more (physically) vulnerable situation when giving their numbers out. A guy who gives me a hard time about it and demands my number or makes me feel like an idiot for not wanting to fork mine over is not someone I want to get to know better.
Re: comments by FYI -- geez, who told Mystery about this comments section! Someone take away FYI's fuzzy hat before he hurts himself.
FYI -- your theory is way off. Women tend not to be as visually oriented as men. That's not to say that we won't fall all over a Brad Pitt look-a-like, but we're just as likely to go for a guy with a great sense of humor, a guitar or a knack for poetry. The best sex I've had was with guys I was not initially attracted to, who took the time to let me get to know them and see how amazingly sexy they were. If they'd only spent two minutes chatting me up and then asked for my number, the answer would have been no.
You might find that women are more likely to show interest in you if you show real interest in them. It's annoying when someone is only talking to you to get something, whether it's a phone number, a blow job or a sale. It makes you want to get them away from you as fast as possible.
Now you say something