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June 3, 2012
Miss Information: Is my girlfriend depressed, or is she falling out of love with me?
by Cait Robinson
Have a question for Miss Information? Email missinfo@nerve.com.
Dear Miss Information,
I am a thirty-two-year-old man and very much in love with my girlfriend. We met twelve years ago — possibly too young, in retrospect. We dated off and on, then moved in together eight years ago. We've been living together and doing blissfully well, until six months ago, when everything changed.
This last summer was outrageously stressful for a multiple of reasons that I won't go into here, but while the strain wasn't coming from us, it was affecting us. The first thing I noticed was that I was no longer giving her orgasms during sex. She said her mind was on other things or she was stressed, but this struck me as odd, as sex had always been a good way to blow off steam for her.
I figured so long as we were talking about it, I shouldn't worry. I then noticed that she really began throwing herself into her work, even though she hates her job. She became more withdrawn from me and everyone around her, and yet she started to become far more outgoing to people she didn't know and spending more time with people I would call acquaintances.
About four months ago we really stopped having sex. She said that she was feeling depressed. I became incredibly worried as major depression runs in her family. I learned everything I could about what I could do to be supportive, but things weren't adding up and still don't seem to be. She isn't quite acting like someone who's depressed — the depression only seems to manifest around me. (I completely understand that I still may be wrong about that observation and that depression can manifest in many different ways.)
A couple of weeks ago she said she thought we should take a break. Again, I asked her what exactly that meant, and she couldn't really answer. But I'm starting to think that I'm simply being naive and I'm mistaking depression for the fact that she's simply fallen out of love with me. I feel like I'm living with a roommate now.
I can't eat, I can't sleep, and I don't know what to do. Yesterday when I woke up on the couch again, I broke down. I'm not sure if I should press her to make a decision, if I should make it for her, or if I should just stay supportive. How you would read this situation? Am I being a dick and making this about me when it's really depression, or is this simply what happens when someone falls out of love?
— What the Hell Happened?
Dear What the Hell Happened?,
Oh, honey: you're not "being a dick by making this all about you." If anything, it seems like you're perpetually following her around with a tray of cookies and milk saying, "What can I do? Will this help?" The confusion and pain is certainly understandable, but as a quick aside: how are you doing? Do you have support networks and sources of joy outside of this relationship, just to keep yourself strong?
As far as the relationship, these are the two major scenarios you're considering:
1. She no longer loves you.
2. She's depressed.
If it's #1, then she owes it to you to sack up, tell you, move out, and move on. If it's #2, she owes it to herself and to you to seek help. Both of these scenarios end with her needing to take some sort of action for herself: anything else turns you into her caretaker, which won't work. So she's either some wishy-washy siren stringing you along, or she's in a place where she's incapable of making any big declarations. Which, from your letter, sounds like the more likely possibility.
And while my position as email-reader hardly qualifies me to pass out meds (can you imagine if it did? I'd be so fun at parties), I see plenty of potential symptoms of depression here. She's losing interest in things; she's becoming withdrawn from close relationships while seeming sunny and ebullient around acquaintances. Depression doesn't always "look" like a terrycloth robe and Haagen-Dazs; when you say she only seems depressed around you, it makes total sense. Don't most of us try to keep up appearances to strangers when we feel like shit, then come home and grumble to the people closest to us? The biggest tip-off, though: She told you she's depressed. Case closed here, ladies and gentlemen. Now that House is off the air, do you think I could get my own medical-detective spinoff? (I'd guess "staph infection" about 60% of the time.)
The short story: encourage her to get help. Maybe it's clinical depression, or maybe it's just a rough patch, but it sounds like she needs something more than you can provide right now. And, while we're at it, put some thought into your own mental health. You deserve not to have this relationship consume you.
Dear Miss Information,
I recently left a religion I had been practicing since birth, one that taught me "no sex before marriage." Now, I'm not against people who believe this, but I'm opening myself up to the idea that it isn't wrong to lose my virginity.
However, changing how my conscience reacts to the subject is going to take far longer than the rational side of me. I've been told "no" for twenty-two years, and adjustment takes time. With that said, I have no idea how to enter a dating world that includes a side order of "sex."
My past relationships have always been with guys of the same faith, who also were living by the same rules, so it was never an issue. Now, it is. I don't know how to approach the dating world of "normal" guys who see sex as a "normal" part of a relationship. I'm just not there yet. Eventually, sure. And I know I shouldn't feel rushed or pressured, but I'm not in high school anymore; I just finished college. The guys I'm interested in are men, not boys. But I feel like I can't go there because they don't want to date a "girl" (so to speak). I mean, why should they date someone they can't sleep with? And the guys I find who are okay with this setup aren't necessarily guys who have a lot of options to begin with.
Basically, I feel like if I don't tell a guy I'm a virgin, I'm leading him on, and if I do, then I'm setting myself up for failure. As much as one can preach "If he likes you, he'll wait," I see it as, "If he's a viable catch, then he can find someone who's willing to give him everything he wants," no matter how much of a catch I may be.
— Unknown Territory
Dear Unknown Territory,
When you've had decades of "true love waits!" messaging, it's undoubtedly tough to switch into the mainstream without feeling like you're at a disadvantage. But being sexually inexperienced doesn't make you a leper. You may also be giving guys too little credit. Sure, some of them will want sex to be mixed in with their relationships from the beginning; but many of them are also thoughtful, emotional creatures who'll want to get to know you before they jump into bed with you.
And why wouldn't a guy be willing to wait while you get comfortable? Many couples date for a while before sleeping together — this is a cultural norm that should in no way set off alarm bells for a potential suitor. If it does, move on. You'll find a more patient guy around the corner. There's a whole range of sexual activity between "kissing" and "penetration," and you and whomever you date can baby-step your way through that range.
Pick up The Guide to Getting it On to familiarize yourself with some of the basics so you're not caught totally unprepared. And know that, when you're fooling around, you have the right to push pause on the action if it starts going too far for you. Boundary-setting is something everyone does, virgin or no. Sex is all about comfort and connection, and the minute you're no longer comfortable, it should stop. The biggest disadvantage you're facing now is your belief that you're at some huge disadvantage. Stop thinking of yourself as a "girl" chasing these "men" — you're a fully-formed, competent adult for many reasons, and sexual experience is just one facet.
Want to meet someone who likes you for you, like in that song? Meet them on Nerve.
Commentarium (40 Comments)
I totally read the first letter as, "she's breaking up with him." I was on the fence until he got to the part where she told him she wanted to take a break from the relationship. To me, that's pretty clear-cut. Sure, *maybe* she's depressed and so she's pushing him away, but it sounds more like she's having doubts about him and is pushing him away while she figures it out/makes up her mind. I think she owes it to him to talk about what's going on with her, and he should do what he can to get her to open up about it.
I agree 100%. If she is depressed she is depressed about how much she is going to hurt someone she really cares about when she tells them she doesn't love them. Nothing about that letter says depression to me (I was seriously depressed for many years when I was younger), all of it says "I feel horrible about no longer loving someone I have been with for 12 years". In fact it sounds pretty similar how one girlfriend was around me in the months prior to her breaking up with me, and that was just a 2 year relationship!
That's what it sounds like to me too.
I totally agree that she most likely wants to break up with him. However, I believe that she could also be legitimately depressed. I've been in that situation.
At the end of my three and a half year relationship (not twelve years, but considerably long nonetheless), my then-boyfriend and I both were experiencing numerous outside stressors (significant problems with school, money, family, so on). I have both a personal and a family history of depression, and I was in a pretty bad spot. The fact that I was feeling suffocated in the relationship and felt like I needed to get out contributed to the depression, but the stagnant relationship certainly wasn't the primary factor.
I broke up with him, we got back together briefly, and I broke up with him for good. He was really upset. At this point, he was far more in love with me than I was with him. Like the What The Hell Happened?, he was not at all prepared for the relationship to end. However, we talked about it, and while he was unhappy with my decision to end the relationship, we both understood that it was for the best. We broke up toward the end of the school year last year, and my only real goal in the ~6 weeks between the break-up and the end of finals was to not kill myself. I failed two classes that semester and did poorly in my others. Again, I contribute these things mostly to factors other than our relationship.
Getting over him was probably a lot easier than it should have been. This was the guy to whom I lost my virginity. He was the first person with whom I ever fell in love. He was my first real relationship. I had A LOT of sex with A LOT of guys after breaking up with him. I suppose I may have been seeking validation from them, but I think it was good for me to "sow my wild oats" for a while, so to speak.
However, since then, I've brought myself into a much, much better place emotionally. I'm on anti-depressants that work for me and smoking weed more. I've been dating a guy for about five months now. We smoke and have fun and eat delicious food and have awesome sex. I've brought my GPA back up to a decent level, I was on the Dean's List this past semester, and I'm still on track to graduate next May.
Moral of the story: her situation isn't easy, but it's not going to get better unless she does something. All he can really do is be as amicable as possible
Re: Unknown Territory...I think Miss Info Missed the boat on that one. UT writes "how to approach the dating world of "normal" guys who see sex as a "normal" part of a relationship", "why should they date someone they can't sleep with?", and "If he likes you, he'll wait". So, to her sex is not a normal part of dating (yet), and the men cannot sleep with her. She wants to date with no sex (for now).
** Ok, do that, to whatever degree you can. But yes, she's going to find a lot of guys aren't ok with that. And if for some reason she wants a monogamous, non-sexual relationship...when she brings up the subject of monogamy, she should make clear that monogamy does not = sex. Actually, even before monogamy, before letting a guy invest too much in you, you should talk about religion, sex, values, etc, so that he knows he's dating someone who's not going to ever have sex with him (unless they somehow make it to marriage). Most guys will probably break it off then and the monogamy discussion will never come up.
** Once her view changes from "they can't sleep with me" to "I will have sex when I find the right man", then all of Miss Info's advice is fine.
She didn't say "no sex ever." She said "no sex, yet." I think you missed the point of that whole letter. The letter started out with her changing her mind about her religion and how sex will factor into her relationships.
I have to say I'm a little bothered by a couple of LW#2s statements. Specifically: "the guys I find who are okay with this setup aren't necessarily guys who have a lot of options to begin with" and "If he's a viable catch, then he can find someone who's willing to give him everything he wants, no matter how much of a catch I may be." LW#2, if you're reading this, then please do us all a favor and speak plainly. I'll parse out the meaning behind these statements. Statement 1 means: "Guys I've met, in my age range, who are okay with a nervous virgin are unattractive." Statement 2 means: "If he's attractive enough to meet my standards, chances are good that he has plenty of opportunities to get laid and not deal with my nervousness." Nobody's saying you have to lower your standards, LW#2. That would be absurd. But let's not be coy about them, either. As a guy who doesn't have many options himself, I find it really annoying when attractive women won't just be honest about these standards. I know most people don't like to admit that they have physical preferences because it makes them seem shallow, but obfuscating those preferences under a veneer of polite semantics is even shallower.
Now, even though I'm a fella with few options on a Friday night, I'm friends with many men who might be considered "viable catch" material. These are good guys with good hearts and a brain in their heads. If you're truly as great as you believe (no false modesty, you said you're a viable catch too), then you'll find plenty of guys who will wait. Miss Info's right about that. You'll find the guy you want. You just have to know where to look. I suggest avoiding clubs and bars. You said you used to be a member of a religion. Surely there are social groups online and in most metropolitan areas for Former Christian/Jew/Muslim/Buddhist/Taoist/Pastafarians? Try one of them and see if maybe there aren't guys in a situation similar to yours. Unless you're seeking out a sexual Yoda to your Luke (okay, that's a creepy metaphor, but funny). In which case, maybe avoid the fellow virginal "recovering Christian". (Yeah, that's Tori Amos, what of it? A straight guy can like Tori Amos, can't he? Shut up!)
Be careful not to read too closely into specific sentences. I think LW2 wants the best situation for herself, the best possible outcome - who wouldn't? - so it seems unfair to judge her for politely saying she doesn't want to date a non-viable catch just because he will accept the virginity whole cloth.
It sounds more like confidence issues than matters of semantics or niceties. LW2 needs a big ol boost of confidence and, as Miss Info correctly points out, an awareness that sex != penetration per se. LW2 needs to be eased into a new frame of mind, but she should do so with knowledge and self confidence.
LW2, you'll bag yourself a viable catch if you can charm the pants off of them. Knowing everything about sex isn't going to make a difference if you meet the right person.
I side with No Country on this one, especially Statement #1. One person's "politely saying" is another person's "using a euphemism to avoid taking flak".
Besides, we call people out all the time for saying "Poor me, no one wants me" when they really mean "no one I WANT wants me".
I don't think LW#2 is in that exact realm of self-pity, but there is something odd about her tone -- something callous about the way she describes "guys who [don't] have a lot of options". That makes me wonder if, mixed in with her insecurity and uncertainty, there's also a sense that she's entitled to expect Mr. Perfect, and not really reconciled to dealing with a person's flaws, imperfections, and what a friend once described as "the dirt under everyone's fingernails". And while that can be a direct consequence of being raised to believe in no sex before marriage, it's still a problem that would need addressing.
Honestly, I'm apprehensive about the amount of projection people seem to be doing in regards to LW2. Callous? Entitlement? This is a lot to read into such small information. I don't necessarily disagree with the overall sentiments espoused by commenters, but, like I say, there's seems to be a creeping sense of projection.
Well, let me ask you this: how would you react to a guy who says that the only women he attracts are those who "don't have a lot of options"? It sounds more than a bit douchey, doesn't it?
I guess I still think you can infer things about a person -- or at least, possibilities worth exploring -- based on what they write. Doesn't her phrasing strike you as kind of...off? Doesn't it seem like she's doing the same thing that a lot of inexperienced guys do, i.e. dividing the opposite sex into "not good enough for me/losers" and "out of my league", and not really showing insight into them as people? Partly that speaks to her inexperience, but partly it's an immature mindset that MAY be there (I didn't say it IS there), and if that's the case then it'll make things a lot tougher on everyone involved unless it's addressed.
It's weird to me that every time someone invokes "projection", it's usually on behalf of a female LW or interviewee. (You did so in a benign way, but the word was still used.) Is there some cultural inhibition against approaching women's self-reflections with a critical eye -- not a negative or hostile eye, but not an automatically supportive one, either -- and interrogating their motives in the same way we interrogate men's? It just feels like there's resistance towards anyone who doesn't respond to female LWs with warmth, support, and "you're OK just the way you are". But I don't think these comments are meant to be, or should be, an ad hoc support group for LWs; nine times out of ten, it's far more helpful to someone if you challenge their beliefs and self-descriptive statements, rather than patting them on the back. But maybe others prefer for this to be a quote-unquote "nurturing" space, I dunno.
In reference to What the Hell Happened?, it really seems like she's just fallen out of love and doesn't have the courage to be honest about it. I'd even venture to say that she might be cheating, or has already done so. The depression thing sounds like a terrible excuse for not wanting to have the break-up conversation because saying, "let's take a break" is a lot easier than saying, "I'm done." It just doesn't seem plausible that she's depressed, given that she's changed who she hangs out with, started working a lot, and disconnected from those who know her well. If she were truly depressed, she wouldn't want to hang out with anyone at all, work would be an afterthought, and she would probably be seeking comfort from someone who loves her. Obviously, depression is different for everyone and I could just be over-generalizing, but it all sounds like a big excuse. If she loves her boyfriend of 12 years, then she will communicate what is going on, good or bad.
+1. the chick's behavior was the same as mine when i was trying to sort out how to extrapolate myself from a relationship with minimal hurt feelings. although i'm sure if she's feeling depressed that's not helping either.
also, "i want to take a break"= "i want to break up with you in the gentlest way that seems like we're not even breaking up but we are starting the breakup process now." in my experience, anyway.
Extricate, not extrapolate.
And you are 100% right on what "I want to take a break" means. You might have a future with someone who says that a few years down the road, you never have a future with them today.
Listen, yes its true that most guys will want sex and will lose interest when they find out its not available but you gotta appreciate that dating is a numbers game. With each date you go on, you raise your chances of meeting a guy who shares your values and, in the process, you get better and better at interacting with guys so that you'll more comfortable/confident when you finally do meet a guy who is willing to meet you on your terms.
I had a male friend who was determined to save his virginity for marriage and he went on LOTS of dates with plenty of really beautiful girls. It wasn't because he was good looking or rich (he wasn't either of those things) it was because he gotten so good at chatting up girls from all the girls who did not want to wait till marriage to have sex. The same thing will probably happen to you. By the way, I don't know if this story has a happy ending or not - I only know that he dated and made out with A LOT of very attractive, well-put-together girls
The Guide to Getting It On is a must. I had a copy when I was younger and I then passed it to my brother when he was going to start having sex and he then gave it to someone else. Get it!
The woman in the first letter has OBVIOUSLY fallen out of love, doesn't know what to do next, doesn't want to move out and is probably depressed about all that. She's probably also cheating and feels guilty and depressed about that, too. DTMFA.
As for LW2, a lot of men are perfectly willing to wait if we are interested enough and as long as we feel that the attraction is mutual. Partly that's because some of us have found through experience how much better sex is when you connect on a lot of different levels and how empty sex can feel with a relative stranger (I envy people who can enjoy casual sex).
As for "cultural norms," it may be a cultural norm to have sex almost immediately with someone you meet at a bar or a club. However, it's not a cultural norm to have sex immediately with someone you meet in the gardening club, a voter registration campaign, a pottery class or some other shared interest. My advice is get involved in activities you enjoy, go on some dates, don't be afraid to express your attraction, let nature take its course. Don't over-think.
This advice is good. People go to bars to get laid. People who are looking for more than that meet in school, are introduced through friends, etc.
Also, LW, I think that your expectations about sex are a little off. Sure, plenty of men like casual sex and plenty of men are willing and eager to have sex on a first date, but that doesn't mean that most first dates end in sex. And no matter what you hear from friends and tv, the third date is not always put-up-or-shut-up time. If you google "average number of sexual partners," you'll find that women sleep with a median of 4 men over their lifetimes and the median for men is 7 women. This means that a lot of dates are ending without sex. A lot of the men I know aren't into casual sex. A lot of men I know who want casual sex aren't that good at getting it. And most men who are into casual sex are willing to endure at least a few sexless weeks for a woman who genuinely interests them. So go on dates, be straight about your lack of experience (though you can wait a few dates before telling all), and dismiss as unworthy any man who runs after hearing about your virginity or any man who (strongly) pressures you for sex before you're ready.
"the third date is not always put-up-or-shut-up time"
It depends on how long between dates, and what kind of dates they are as well (guys who blow a lot of money on fancy dinner dates are less likely to be patient, and women who expect them are less likely to find men who are willing to wait indefinitely for sex). I think your reference to "a few" weeks, i.e. about three, sounds right; any more than that, and most men will lose interest unless there's a very powerful connection otherwise.
Also, I'm glad you added "strongly" pressures, because it's totally legit for a person to say "Listen, I respect your situation, but I'm really looking for a relationship that's passionately sexual, and I believe it's important for two people to know if they're sexually compatible before they get too attached." The LW needs to know that someone who says that to her (or communicates that basic message with less flowery language) isn't a cad, or a player, or whatever. I don't think she's thinking that, but some people do think incorporating sex in any way into the "Should I stay or should I go?" equation makes you an asshole.
Yeah, but if a "passionately sexual" relationship is in the cards for that couple (and they should know by that time if the potential is there), I don't see her saying "no" to that. I think she's just looking for the right guy, and once she finds him, sex will come effortlessly (no pun intended).
I think if a "passionately sexual" relationship is in the cards, then by 3-4 weeks in most people (men and women) will be ... I don't know how to say this without metaphors... chomping at the bit. My husband and I really wanted to wait for 3 weeks, and very nearly did! It would have been difficult if we were really into each other and one of us was going crazy to make it sexual and the other just... wouldn't or couldn't. Neither party is in the wrong, morally, but it would be really difficult. Hopefully when LW1 gets to that point she is informed, educated, and not going to feel ashamed of normal sexual activity. Hopefully hormones and infatuation will get her there, and her first time (for her, or with any new partner) will be awesome.
LW1, while she may be depressed, she's made her wishes known. She wants a break. She may even want to break up, but (stupidly) figures this may be easier on you. At any rate, she doesn't want to be with you right now. You're just putting each other through a very special hell by hanging around.
She also may have met someone and is very confused. Whatever her reasoning, you don't need (or want) to know. It will just be hurtful. Get yourself out of a situation that is only causing you and her pain. You'll both be better off for it.
One question: Eight years and no ring? Maybe she's just tired of waiting for you.
LW1: She's done with your ass. Believe it.
LW2: Do you want to bone or not? All that writing and you didn't say shit.
She's not ready. All that writing and she said it in the first couple of sentences. If you're not ready, then don't. Yes, you are going to meet guys who throw you over because of that. Welcome to the world we all live in. There are plenty of fish in the sea, though. It's not like it's all over if one guy won't wait for it and dumps you. Move on to the next guy. By the time I was your age, I had slept with more guys than you have fingers and toes. None of them were "the one" I wanted to be with forever, and I knew that. Being willing or not willing isn't the magic ingredient. Sometimes you just have to meet a lot of people before you meet one that you want to be with long term. Being a virgin doesn't make you a freak any more than not wanting to commit made me a freak at that time in my life. We're two different people and there are people out there for both of us.
I feel for the guy in first letter, I wish my boyfriend is like him. I am also depressed and suffer from anxiety issues, but no one wants to actually help me. My boyfriend seems scared of me, and usually runs away when I am not in perfect mood. There's nothing I can do about it, I love him, and my issues are to big probably for anyone to handle. But this guy seems so nice and attentive it's shame if his relationship does not work.
I know what depression can do to you, it's horrible, and yes, you can lose everything you care about. It's hard to say if his girlfriend is depressed or stopped loving him, but I think she would be fair enough if she doesn't love him, to tell him that. If she is in fact depressed I know for sure it's hell. She does need help but first, she needs to see that she does have problem. This way, she's not fair to him or to herself. She has someone who loves her and wants to help, wish we all could have that much. :(
In LW#1's situation, these aren't mutually exclusive. She could be depressed AND have fallen out of love. But if that's the case, you probably can't talk her out of breaking up, or into therapy. If you've offered help and support and her response is that she wants a break, then it sounds like it's over. Whatever the reason. And if you believe you've done all you can, then you have nothing to reproach yourself over.
IS meeting people in a bar really that terrible of an idea? I find it difficult to believe all that junk about meeting your perfect match at a book club or some crap like that.
Short answer: no. It's ok.
LW#2, you're only 22. There are lots of other people out there who are also virgins at 22 or even older. It's also not fair of you to assume that just because a man is attractive that he is a cad or that he doesn't have just as many insecurities surrounding sex as you do. Everyone is different. You just need to meet the right person for you and that's not going to happen overnight nor will it happen if you keep projecting your ideas of how someone should be onto someone instead of getting to know them and learning who they are.
Am I the only one who thinks the advice to LW1 is terrible? She pretty much told him to do what he's already doing - sit around and wait for his girlfriend to either break up with him or if she's really depressed, get some help. And if his girlfriend continues to avoid taking any kind of action? He should move out and move on with his life. He deserves better. I'm also inclined to believe that she's not really depressed, she does wants out of the relationshp. But even if it is depression, if she refuses to address it, he should move on, or he'll wind up a hostage to her illness and her refusal to even attempt to deal with it.
Yikes. As someone who suffers from depression, I can almost feel the depression radiating off LW1's girlfriend. The bit about being depressed around one's closest friends and ebullient around strangers/acquaintances especially. That's me like 24/7, standard self-protection mechanism. Deny your problems around most, indirectly plead for help around the inner circle. Now, there may be other underlying issues here, and she may indeed have fallen out of love with you, but I think there's probably a connection between these unspecified extrinsic summer problems and her behavior now. Depression can be triggered pretty easily by stressful life events, particularly in someone already at risk. I'd encourage you to encourage her to explore this possibility through therapy. The tell-tale signs are all there, and it would be a shame if an otherwise healthy relationship were to be derailed by this (hopefully temporary) setback.
There's a line in the first letter, where the letter writer says, "I'm not sure if I should press her to make a decision..." Um, hello, there's no need to, she's already made a decision and you're out (especially if you are sleeping on the couch).
I once fell out of love with a (fairly) good man. It was so complete and devastating that it made me incredibly agitated, anxious, horrid towards him and slightly depressed. What compounded the matter was his attentiveness to me, and trying to 'solve' my unhappiness. Being younger, I couldn't bring myself to be honest and say that the source of my unhappiness was being with him. I wanted to break up with him but was constantly thinking about how heartbroken, upset and sad he would be. And whilst I no longer loved him, I did not want to hurt him. Instead I did all the things the LW1's girlfriend did. Worked longer, tried to make excuses so that I could see him less, I stopped wanting to have sex with him and again made any excuse I could. I hated myself for it, was constantly unhappy, sometimes I would cross the road and suddenly start crying because I felt so trapped. I knew it was unfair on him and my friends would tell me, that not only him, but it was not fair on me either. After a few attempts (I wanted a breakup - he convinced me to turn it into a break), I finally broke up (and stayed broken up). Some friends (who had no idea of my internal feud) remarked about how surprisingly happy I looked. After that, I learnt the greatest respect you can show someone is that if you KNOW they have no future in your life, let them go and each find your happiness elsewhere.
I don't know what LW1's girlfriend is thinking/feeling... but this was my experience.
I hope that one of the lessons you got from that situation, Hmmm, was that by trying so hard to not hurt him, you hurt him and hurt him and hurt him some more.
This is one of those situations where an honest conversation and a clean break saves weeks or months of second-guessing, gnawing doubt, and ever-more-desperate attempts at resuscitating a relationship that one side secretly knows is dead.
LW1: I am pretty confident your gf wants out. All signs point to it, including "selective depression" on her part. I.E. she's fine around other people, then depressed around you.
LW2: There is a very good chance your first sexual experiences are going to be extremely awkward. You do not have a "sexual self" yet. It's awkward enough when you're a teenager, so don't feel bad if you don't feel comfortable about it for a long while, perhaps years.
When I was depressed, I was the life of the party around people and comatose around those I cared about. It could be that.
Am I the only one that's kind of grossed out by how many people are ready to declare that LW#1's girlfriend is lying about her depression just because it doesn't look exactly like they want it to? Many people who have mood disorders are good at putting on the mask of normalcy around acquaintances but can't hold it up when they're at home.
However, LW, you need to start putting your well being at top priority. Stop reading books to try to diagnose her; that's not your responsibility. If you want to be supportive, see if you can find a good psychiatrist whose number you can send her way. Tell her you care about her and that you respect her wishes. (There's no point in debating whether or not you should dump her. She's dumped you. That might be the depression talking but right now you can't possibly know, so take her at her word.) And then, once you've done that, divorce yourself from any guilt about her future, whatever ugliness may arise. You are not her doctor and you do not need to take responsibility for her care.
LW2: Many years ago I started dating a 25 y.o, woman who on our 2nd date told me she was a virgin. She was quick to add that she wasn't saving herself for marriage or for religious purposes, but rather that she hadn't been with the guy with whom she felt comfortable with. I was totally fine with respecting her wishes on that. Granted, it did probably help that she was amazing at oral sex (and had no issues being on the receiving end of oral or manual stimulation -- she was very orgasmic, actually), but she was also a terrific person with whom I took every possible moment to spend time with.
After we'd been dating for 6 months, she told me that she wanted me to take her virginity. I made absolutely sure that this was what she wanted and actually made her wait a couple of weeks...believe it or not, taking someone's virginity was never on my list of "must do's" in life. Once we did go through the act (v e r y s l o w l y), she expressed how glad she was that she waited until she felt she was with the right guy.
So there are guys out there who won't force you to do anything you don't want to. I would recommend getting in touch with your sexuality - learn how to give yourself orgasms and be open to oral and manual sex. When you find the right guy with whom you feel comfortable, you'll know.
LW1, You are dithering around because you don't know for certain what is going on. I submit that most likely you never will. Short of hiring a private eye and getting photos of her cheating on you, you will never know for certain what her motivations are. Her behavior could be depression, or it equally plausibly could be that she has moved on and doesn't know how to break it off. The main thing is, if it is the latter, you will never get the real story from her.
However, she has said one thing explicitly: that she wants a break. You should take her at her word. Also, treat it as a regular breakup. Within any given moment, "taking a break" is functionally identical to breaking up for real. The only difference is that with "taking a break" one side is dangling the possibility of getting together again at some unspecified time in the future. Thing is, you can do that even with a real breakup -- there's nothing preventing two people from getting back together at any time. If it happens it happens. In the meantime, don't throw your life away waiting for her to come to her senses. If she does, and you are available, all well and good. If she never does, you won't have wasted your life on a vain hope.
Letter #1 sounds just like my sweetie's ex wife... right before she left him for another man. I think the "take a break" is indicative - she probably is not in love with him anymore, pulls the depressed thing (she may be depressed around him due to not wanting to be around him and unsure of how to him so) and probably feels somewhat trapped due to the long-term situation. I would tell her to move on and figure it out and you should do the same. If you are meant to be, it will return. I was depressed in the last years of my marriage as well, due to the fact I no longer loved my husband, wanted out and exhibited a bunch of the same behaviors as the depressed person in the letter. And yes, there was someone else.