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February 19, 2011
Miss Information
I found out my friend-with-benefits is engaged — do I have to tell his fiancee?
By Cait Robinson
Have a question? Email missinfo@nerve.com. Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.
Dear Miss Information,
I started an "acquaintances with benefits" relationship with a guy in my office building (different company, same building) three-plus years ago. We met during a building holiday event (okay, drunkenly made out and compared fetishes); we were both toward the end of long-term relationships so we kept it a secret, and honestly don't have enough in common outside of our sexual interests to consider dating. Things had been going great all this time. Discreet, convenient, and hot, right? Well, I discovered he got engaged over Christmas to a woman in his company — in other words, in my building. I feel like a giant, accidental asshole. I thought we'd been telling each other what/who we'd been doing, but apparently it was just me. I immediately stopped seeing or talking to him, got tested, the usual end-of-the-affair stuff. But now I'm wondering what obligation I have to his fiancée? I recently saw their engagement announcement, and she looks so happy in the photo, but if the timeline is correct he was still hitting me up two weeks post-engagement, and I bet he would still be doing so if I hadn't found out. So what do you think I should do, if anything? It's "none of my business" versus an unspoken obligation to my fellow woman.
— Accidental Asshole
Dear AA,
I applaud your impulse to look out for another woman's well-being, as long as it's not just a front for malice or jealousy — which, judging from your tone, it doesn't seem to be. But here's the thing: you're not the asshole, accidental or otherwise. He is. If he was juggling several partners, it's his responsibility to drop the infidelity bomb, not yours. If you contact her, it will likely get messy and the blame will get diffused. She'll be embarrassed, caught off guard, mad at you, and mad at him, and in that condition, she might be willing to shoot the messenger. Then hair-pulling and kicking and screaming may ensue, copiers will get smashed, windows will get broken, security will get called, and the reputation of Women in the Workplace will be set back decades.
Fight scenes aside, you didn't know he was engaged, so you didn't (knowingly) do anything wrong. If you tell her, you're doing his dirty work for him. He needs to own up to his mistakes.
If this is really nagging you, take it up with the guy. Confront him, ask him to explain the timeline, and tell him how it makes you feel (angry/used/worried for his fiancée, whatever). Maybe she already knows and it's cool, and case closed. Maybe he's just a dick who gets off on the thrill of secrecy. If it's the latter, he's the one who should be held accountable, and he's the one who should come clean.
Dear Miss Info,
I am in love with my best friend, but she says that she's asexual. When I told her how I felt about her, she said that she loves me, too, but that she's not into sex, and wants to maintain a really close platonic relationship like we have. To be fair to her, I've known her for several years and in all that time she has never dated or to my knowledge had sex with anyone, but... really? Is that a real thing? I want to respect her wishes and sexual orientation, but I wonder if it isn't just an excuse for her. What if we really are meant to be together but she's just afraid and in denial? How do I know if I should just accept that I will never be able to be with the woman I love, or if this is just an issue she has that I can help her work through?
— Friend Just Wants Benefits
Dear Friend Just Wants Benefits,
When I was in college, there was a well-known rumor about a student at the neighboring women's college who had come out to her parents as a dragon. As in, "Mom, Dad, I have something to tell you. Ha ha, no, calm down. I'm not gay. No, no! Phew! Nothing like that! I'm a dragon." We passed this story around and howled over our PBRs, because how absurd, right? So we laughed and high-fived each other for being well-adjusted and popular, then went home and quietly sobbed while clasping voodoo dolls and journaling about our feelings. Ugh. College.
So here's the thing, FJWB. Your friend telling you she's asexual may sound a lot to you like a flimsy, whimsical excuse. Like "asexual" = "dragon" = "considering starting a nunnery called 'The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants,' because of LOLZ." For the record, unlike dragonism, asexuality is a controversial but acknowleged sexual orientation, so you can put that question to bed. But more importantly, she's telling you she's asexual because she's not into you. And because she's not into anybody. It's real to her, so it should be real to you. And if she is just "afraid" and "in denial," those are things she'll have to work through on her own time. These aren't things you can fix in anybody else, and it's a huge misuse of energy to try.
So stay her friend but don't aim for anything else. Her sexuality is none of your business: it's her process and hers alone. Like everyone, she could use a friend — just not one who thinks he knows better than she does. Leave that attitude to snotty undergrads.
Commentarium (57 Comments)
oh, miss info. i usually agree with your advice, but your answer to the first one seems wrong. AA should have made sure that both of them were relationship-free before starting up with the dude, but he also should have told her his relationship with his now-fiance was serious. now imagine being a woman about to marry someone - wouldn't you want to know that he was schtupping someone on the side? and what good will it be for aa to confront him? we already know he's a liar. she should find out a way to let the fiance know what was going on, either anonymously or in person.
Wrong. It's none of your business!
Most of the time, if "we already know he's a liar", then so does the girlfriend.
Yeah, either way, it's smart to keep out of other people's relationships. I'd bend the rules if a friend is involved, but other than that, most people are out for revenge, not justice.
Friends With Benefits, is just that; it's about the benefits. It is not about expectations beyond the bedroom (or wherever else you do it), it is sex. He is free to see others. She is free to date. That's the way that is. Talking about, revealing anything: how you voted; who you date; where you live; the relationship with your parents or siblings.....it is all irrelevant to the nature of the relationship. You "honestly don't have enough in common outside of our sexual interests to consider dating." Clearly, it was just about sex. And now it's not. And telling his fiance' because she would want to know? How do you know she would want to know -- because YOU would? No, don't go there and do damage. Don't.
Even if the friends with benefits weren't required to fully communicate, it's kind of assumed the engaged couple is. Clearly, it isn't just sex for them. Maybe they did communicate. Maybe they have an open relationship. But it's fair for her to wonder and look out for the OTHER woman, even if she probably shouldn't tell her.
Here is what friend who just wants benefits should do, Invite her over, saying you just want friend time. make her favorite meal and have her favorite wine, then watch a slightly steamy romantic movie. When the movie is over put in some fun music and start getting flirtatious. If she doesn't rebuff you right away offer to give her a massage if that goes well then go in for a quick kiss. if she doesn't object then you know she is just repressing her sexual side and if she does object then you can just blame the wine. At least then you know where you stand.
Better idea: Meet said other woman on the internet, but go out with her instead.
That's called how to be a cliched jackass. And how to stand a good chance of damaging a friendship by not respecting what your friend has plainly told you.
Ew.
wow. you are really, really creepy.
dude, either you are 15 years old or you are extremely clueless and creepy.
Yo, Friend blah, blah, blah: She's not asexual. She's just not into you. Here's what you do to make sure. Find another lady. (Go on the internet, its easy.) Go out a few times, introduce her to your "asexual" friend. If she's unable to deal then you've got a crazy problem on your hand because the chick is insane (or has been abused). If she's cool, then she's just not into you.
Yeah, because women are jealous bitches who don't know what they want until some other woman comes to take it? Advice from middle schoolers.
Its not that she (the bitch as you describe her) doesn't know... Its that the dude doesn't know that she's not into him. So he makes up some asexual bullshit...
I vote for telling the woman in the first scenario. If the dude is a liar, then you spare her the pain of getting married and later finding out he's a cheater. If they have an open relationship or she would just be pissed at you (although hopefully if you told her you didn't know he was in a relationship she wouldn't be) well no harm is really done, since it's not like you guys were friends to begin with.
I didn't get that advice either. I feel that if you see another person walking off a cliff, you call out. If you see someone being deceived, you try to tell them the truth. If the guy is in an open relationship, the worst that can happen is an uncomfortable conversation with the fiance. She might not be cool about meeting his hook-ups. If he isn't in a open relationship, then the worst that can happen (if they really do work for different companies) is that she calls you a liar and marries him anyway. However, you have done everything you could have. No regrets on your part.
Welcome to the circus of unrequited love, dear. You can't pressure anyone into being sexually attracted to you, and if you could, the end prize wouldn't be as worth it anyway. If you've told your friend how you feel about her and she says that she still values your friendship enough to want to keep you around just as closely as ever, consider the depth of your feelings for her. One of your options is to take her answer as a gift, and reserve your romantic feelings for any of the other wonderful girls roaming the planet, wishing articulate guys like you would notice them. Another option is to walk away in order to keep your heart and junk intact. But please, please don't question her answer in a way that demeans her own ability to assess her wants and needs, and please keep in mind that she might have just been telling you that she wasn't attracted to you (but in a way designed to spare your feelings and make it not about you personally). I played the "asexual" card once with an acquaintance of mine who hit on me (and every other girl he knew) while he was experiencing serious mental health and anger management problems, just because I didn't want him to think that I was specifically rejecting him among all people, and because for all intents and purposes it was true at the time. (I'd never gone out with anybody, I'd never even slept with anyone or wanted to.) I still don't know if it was the right thing to do (we haven't contacted each other since our long conversation afterwards), but I hope it didn't set back the cause of true asexuality. Whatever identity your friend wants to lay claim to - "asexual," "Californian," "punk-rock," "Episcopalian," "New Age," "steampunk" - if she takes it seriously and not jokingly, then I think you should respect it, too, on her own terms and in her own words, if you care for her beyond caring for what she can do to please you.
I think I'm going to start listing my sexual orientation as "Steampunk."
Just imagine the wonderful toys involved in that lifestyle - the need to have a boiler involved to be legit on the steam part, though, could be worrisome.
Are you female or male? Your friend could be a closet case who is not ready and/or has body image issues. This option and any other still requires patience on your part. That said, you can't put your life on hold for this. Still be there in spirit, but you have to move on and cultivate new relationships or friendships.
@ Friend Just Wants Benefits:
Honey, there is no such thing as "meant to be together." Who exactly plans all that out? Where's the list of things that are supposed to be?
I think you hit the crux of the matter here. The "meant to be" notion will bury the possibility of allowing yourself to realize that you may have to reconcile with the fact that the one you love, is not romantically interested in you. It sucks, trust me, I know but you'll end up burying yourself in the process as well. And I don't know about you but I would much rather salvage my heart and a possible chance at what could and should be a pensive and satisfying connection. I cant speak for all asexuals but sometimes this bond holds a different substance that physically intimacy doesn't always express. And who knows. Maybe if you demonstrate that you can respect and understand what her reasons are than maybe she will let you in. Asexuals don't completely abstain from sex its just not always the first thought or final destination. Whatever you do though...don't sell yourself short. You have to find love that you can share with someone the way you both want. You deserve that much at least.
I once had a friend who declared himself asexual. This wasn't because it was his lifestyle orientation, but because the anti-depressants he was on absolutely destroyed his libido. He had zero interest in sex. Because the risk of stopping the medication outweighed the possible reward (booty), quitting was never an option.
Perhaps it's not that she's not into you, or asexual at all. There are many medications that can destroy the libido to the point where it's non-existent.
I often will stop taking my medication for a few days in order to have an orgasm. It frustrates my fiance to end that I literally cannot come because of the meds, and while we still regularly have sex, he feels guilty that he's the only one getting off. So S may be onto something there..
asexuality does exist and your friend could be asexual. Its rare though, and its more likely that she is afraid of physical intimacy, has had some trauma in her past, or is a closet case. It is almost certain though, that she does really believe she is asexual. Whatever the reason, she is not ready for a physical relationship, so whether or not she is "truly asexual" is irrelevant. Its not something that you can "fix," and if you did get into a relationship with her, it would not make either of you happy.
Oh, snap. Miss Info outed dragon girl to the world!
Did Miss Info go to Bryn Mawr??
ha! dude, dragon girl has to be from bryn mawr. i think i remember that.
Let's look at this from another perspective. AA tells the fiancee that her man is cheating on her. He turns around and tells his fiancee that AA is crazy, that they used to sleep together and now she can't let it go and is trying to break them up. Fiancee tells her friends in the building, word spreads, AA gains a bad reputation for being a jilted lover and a psycho. She's better off keeping her mouth shut and preserving her dignity and career.
Absolutely. As someone who once was in a similar situation, I was tempted to tell the new fiancee. But it wasn't really about her - it was about me, and trying to assuage my own guilt (tho my situation was different, in that I knew he had started seeing someone seriously, but I was young, in love, and dumb). If I had gone to her, she would have chalked it up to sour grapes, and it could have massively come back to haunt me.
As for them, they got married, and then divorced - it's their lives, they're adults, and it's their road to travel.
Yes. Or you could assume the people in the building are rational human beings, and realize that if they hear both sides of the story it's going to cause some doubt as to which one is right. It's really a matter of where your heart lies. Me, I'd rather feel good about my actions, knowing that I tried to help someone else, even if it risked tarnishing my "reputation" whatever that means. But I tend to be pretty gutsy when it comes to this kinds of stuff. I don't care what ever single person thinks of me.
Sure, you gotta do what you gotta do. But honestly, nobody is rational about this sort of thing. Shoot the messenger is the norm in that situation.
Oh man, tell the fiancee, but not personally. Tell the boyfriend that he can tell her or you are going to a friend of her's. Just don't be the one to do it, since you really don't want to hear that kind of hurtful news from the girl your boyfriend was recently inside. Also, this might sound selfish, but I would worry that the news would get out another way and it could hurt you professionally. How awful. I would be hurt beyond repair if I found something like that out about my boyfriend, but I would want to know.
Ugh, stay out of other people's business. The fiancee either already knows that her bf is fucking around or she won't believe you if you try to tell her. It's a no-win situation.
As for the other one, I'm not completely sold that asexuality is a real thing. It seems to be more of a side effect of other problems, in my opinion. Or maybe I just can't possibly fathom the idea of not being interested in sex. Either way - she doesn't want to bang you and probably is never going to bang you, whatever her reasoning is. That doesn't mean she isn't into you, but if you need to have sex to have a romantic relationship, then you should probably be having a relationship with someone else. I've met plenty of guys that I thought were super awesome, but the sexual chemistry just wasn't there. That always sucks, but it is far from the end of the world.
"The fiancee either already knows that her bf is fucking around or she won't believe you if you try to tell her."
That's a ridiculous statement, that would not be true for lots of people.
LW1 should just shut up and find another friend. No need to dump on two happy people.
Yeah, he's obviously real happy...
AA, move on. You did nothing wrong and your FWB may or may not have done something wrong. Either way, that's his personal business. You are right to discontinue relations with him and now its time to move on. If he comes around looking for action in the future, then have a frank discussion with him; tell him no way and that if he does you would then contact his bride to be. If he drops it, so should you.
FWJB,
I agree with Miss Info. This girl just isn't into you. Whether its real or perceived or whatever (being asexual), it doesn't matter. She's not into you. I wouldn't waste any more time on this one. If you linger around, eventually she will find she is not asexual but it will be with someone else. Personally I wouldn't even stay friends because you'll always have in the back of your mind that you can turn her around and brother, it is not going to happen.
I'd bet that AA's willingness to dish to the fiance has far, far more to do with her own personal jealousy and less to do with doing a good dead. I had a 3 year FWB relationship with a guy that I've known for years.. it came about after my divorce, things were great, saw each other 3-4 times a month then out of nowhere I found out that he was "dating". I was fine with the fact that we didnt go out in public.. until I found out he was out with somebody else, after many discussions about how he wasnt interested in dating. I was mad and hurt and felt not good enough... but.. I also knew it wasnt my place to tell her and potentially break them up. I knew he and I were far too differen to be the typical boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. She's disguised it well.. but that letter just screams Jealous to me.
Dating is a different than engaged.
Dan Savage just did at article about asexual folks - that it's best if they disclose it up front. So this girl did exactly that. She's not terribly interested in sex and it may or may not change. If sex is a big part of your life, you need to move on. But you can't hope she'll change or push her into changing. She's done the brave thing and put it out there; if you continue to pursue her knowing this, you have only yourself to blame if you end up crying.
Sexuality is so complex. I don't find it shocking that there are people out there that don't have sexual feelings at all. As someone else pointed out, there are drugs that can cause that effect, so it's not such a leap to imagine that there are people that way naturally.
Tell her, wouldn't you want to know?
For the first letter: Ask the guy out for coffee, lunch or something. Don't tell him why. His reaction should tell you all you need to know. If he comes for another bite at the apple, tell just what kind of scumbag he is and that you pity his fiancee. And tape it. Then when you leave, point out to him that if he tries to do any damage control by badmouthing you, you've got him on tape. If he says there can't be anymore FWB action, just assume he's a typical asshat and finally got a conscience. And leave it at that. I know it sounds all underhanded, but it solves two problems. Number one, if the guy is as scummy as you suspect, he may already be doing damage control since you cut out communication. And if he did finally grow up, leave him and fiance to the vagaries of life.
To letter #2: Regardless of what the truth is, for your soulmate search, move on. There is nothing worse than wearing someone down into a relationship with you. They end up hating you and themselves. And it all ends up bad. Some close friendships are supposed to be just that, very close friendships. And they are valuable beyond compare. Don't risk losing that.
Dear Miss,
Regarding your first letter. The relationship was about sex, words confirmed by the woman herself. If they had an agreement not to have sex with others, than he was wrong not to tell her, but if not...... whatever happens between himself and his fiance (or any other woman) is his business.
The sex partner should bug off!
Oh, and by the way Miss, you're still a hottie!! Yum.
Cd8x8u Well, actually, a lot of what you write is not quite true ... well, okay, it does not matter:)))
The material is on the five plus. But there is a minus! My internet speed 56kb/sek. The page was loading for about 40 seconds...
However, the author created a cool thing!!!
I am glad that your blog is constantly evolving. Such posts only gain in popularity...
Read, of course, far from my topic. But still, we can work together. How do you feel about trust management???
Honestly, not bad news...
Uh, well, explain me a please, I am not quite in the subject, how can it be???