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October 18, 2010
Miss Information
My boyfriend's twenty years older than me, and I'm scared about the future if we get married. Should I tell him not to propose?
By Erin Bradley
Have a question? Email erin@nerve.com. Letters may be edited for length, content and clarity.
Dear Miss Information,
My boyfriend is obsessed with his cat. It's gotten so bad that I have developed an irrational hatred towards the animal. He makes so many situations just about the cat. He will sing pop songs and substitute lyrics with his cat's name. We'll be sitting together on the couch, and he'll say things like, "Pet the Jeffles!" (its name is Jeff, just Jeff) and it's like nails on a chalkboard. I don't want to pet the cat when I'm feeling such postal rage, and I especially don't want to pet the cat if he is commanding me to do so. When I say no, he gets very upset.
I have tried to tell him how I feel, but instead of admitting to anything, he gets defensive and insists that I talk to my own cat like that. Uh, definitely not. I think that he is truly not aware of how obnoxious he is when it comes to his cat. What do I do? I know hating the cat is irrational, but I can't seem to get over it no matter how reasonable I try to be. Mind you, his cat used to attack me semi-frequently (my boyfriend says I'm the only one he's been like that to), but I would never retaliate. When I would tell my boyfriend what happened, he would go into denial because he didn't witness anything.
Do you think this is something I can get over? Should I break up with him? I can't imagine how bad the argument would be if I told him, "I'm breaking up with you because you're too obsessed with your cat and I can't take it any longer."
— He's A Crazy Cat Lady
Dear He's A Crazy Cat Lady,
I'll attempt to answer your question, but please be aware that I bought three sweaters for my dog last weekend. I'm in the throes of new animal lust. How can I play judge when I couldn't even get on the jury? I do have a low bullshit tolerance, though. I can see how having Mad Men interrupted by a "Benny and the Jeffs" feline pantomime might be cute at first, but rage-inducing each time thereafter. I don't know if you hate the cat so much as you dislike the way your boyfriend thinks it's cool to disregard your physical and emotional cues. Wait, they're not even cues. They're actual verbal requests. How dense is this guy? I love Eddie (that's my dog's name, and since you didn't ask here's a snapshot) but I'm not going to bring him along on an anniversary dinner or give him tummy rubs while my man and I are having Naked Adult Time. There are boundaries.
You may not realize it, but you and your boyfriend are a lot alike. You're both using the animal as a means of testing each other's affections:
YOU: If you loved me you'd pay attention to me, not that furball.
HIM: If you loved me, you'd give Prince Jeffrey a scratch behind the ears every once in a while.
It's a power struggle, and the whole animal debate is just a by-product. You both want to hear that you are respected and valued as a partner. Cats have many charms, but they're lousy psychiatrists.
Convincing him of his own obnoxiousness is never going to happen. He's going to get defensive and come back at you with the hypocritical cat-hating girlfriend jive. Leave the personality assessments out of the equation and communicate with "I" statements: I would like to know why it's so important to you that I pet the cat. I want to figure out how we can balance couple time with cat time. I need to know what your plan is for disciplining this animal the next time he acts out, because laughing it off is no longer working for me, capeche?
Mutual surrender can go a long way here. You buy the cat a small gift (perhaps a sweater?) and do your best to feign niceness. He cools it with the forced petting and agrees on at least one Jeff-free day per week when he focuses on you and you only. I know you're nearing the end of your tolerance, but at least try it. You may even grow to love the little four-legged twerp, and then your boyfriend will be the one who's envious of Jeff's new BFF.
Dear Miss Information,
Two years ago I met my perfect match, and we both made the daunting jump out of our respective (miserable) marriages and into each others' waiting arms. He is truly my other half and the sex is mind-blowing. The issue is that he's forty-eight, I'm twenty-nine. For these last blissful two years, it was easy to ignore.
But last week, I saw he had a business card for a jeweler that we both love. Our two-year anniversary is coming up. The idea that he might be gearing up to propose was thrilling... for thirty seconds. Then I got the sweats. It's not being married to him that scares me. We've had the future-and-baby conversation and both of us agree that we want the latter soon, with me being the breadwinner and pursuing my career while he winds down his successful career and takes excellent care of the kid. No, my fears are much more shallow.
He's getting old. At a much faster rate than me. And even though we work out (hard) every day, go backpacking and biking, and stay excited about new things and experiences, the idea that someday I will be his caretaker instead of his partner-in-old-age makes me want to curl up into a miserable ball. And what about when I am a relatively svelte forty-year old and he is an age-spotted and slightly forgetful sixty? Will I still want him? Or (gasp) will he still be able to get it up? And what will I do when he passes away so damn much sooner than I? How will our kid feel to lose his dad so early on?
Am I freaking out for no reason? I can't imagine living without him. I want to focus on the great years we will have instead of the years we won't, but I can't shake it. I'm scared and need advice before he pulls out that ring.
— Clock is Ticking
Dear Clock is Ticking,
Twenty years is a big age difference, but you're together on the important stuff: sex, emotional and intellectual compatibility, baby-making, and finances.
The vision you lay out for the future, while delightfully neurotic and one with which I can very much identify, is just that — a vision. It's not real. It's a representation of how you think life will turn out, but despite what Normal Vincent Peale and the writers of The Secret have to say, that house of tarot cards could collapse at any time. You could develop cancer or get in a car accident, and he's the one who's the caretaker. That planned baby of yours could kill you in childbirth. His flagging boner may not matter if you suddenly can't have sex because of a difficult-to-treat condition like vulvodynia.
I'm not saying this to depress or scare you. Odds are, if you choose to go ahead with the marriage, everything will go more or less as planned and you and your guy will live a more or less amazing life. And in truth, someone who's two decades older than you and a male is more likely to be the first to pass away. It's terrifying to think about someone you love dying, not to mention raising a child alone and feeling guilty that you put that child in the position of having one parent instead of two. There's also choosing between facing hospice care and Wheel of Fortune reruns alone or being in your sixties and re-entering the dating market. Your freakouts are not unfounded.
They say that "Love conquers all," but I think "Love makes you willing to put up with enormous amounts of hassle" is a more accurate aphorism. When you're truly in love, worries like yours will still be there, but you're able to overcome them and find a way to rationalize. It's part cost/benefit analysis and part self-induced blindness. In other words, it's love: the reason that people still want to go forward with matrimony, despite all the epic failures.
Are you in love, or are you looking to the age difference as the vehicle for another uncertainty? Perhaps you are in love, but not quite enough. The good news is that you've got some time to figure it out. Just go ahead and ask him about the jeweler's card. If it's what you're thinking, tell him you'd like to hold off on any forward movement until you're feeling more comfortable. It's better come across presumptuous than to accept a ring and renege later or crush him with a "No" in front of an audience.
Readers, have you ever had to proactively fend off a proposal? How did you do it?
Tags
Monogamy
Commentarium (56 Comments)
Eddie is adorable!
Eddie and the Jeffs.
Clock is Ticking really needs to see a therapist to sort out these issues; she's confused and all over the map about her feelings. If she's this upset about her future, she should definitely re-think the idea of having a child--with anyone.
Clock. 50 is the new 35. In the good scenario he should be in good shape for at least another 20 years. Go for it.
Cat Charmer's Girlfriend, you should watch Heavy Petting. Not because it has the answer you're looking for, but because it might bring a smile to your face about the situation for a few minutes. Although it sucks, best wishes anyway.
I'm 50 she's 30. Married in April. Best relationship I've ever had.
No one really knows about the future. Maybe in the next 30 years, someone will invent robot caretakers, and you won't have to worry about anything in that regard. If you two keep working out hard as you say, though, he should keep his energy longer than the average "old guy."
Miss Information is not a very auspicious name for an advice columnist.
As long as "clock is ticking" is playing the odds games about her future, she should probably factor in the odds of this second marriage lasting until the end of her/his days. Although ms. bradley claims the odds are good, all the evidence shows that those odds aren't very good at all.
There's no hard evidence in the letter for thinking that they were cheating with each other on their ex-spouses, but the 1st paragraph certainly suggests it.
The core of ms. bradley's advice is strong, but ignoring the unhappy fact that they probably won't last anyway is rather glaring in my estimation.
Woah, 'Clock Is Ticking'. People in their sixties are senile now? I know many, many people in their sixties and seventies who are in just as good shape as people in their forties. Stop being a fucking agist idiot.
To 'Clock is ticking'...my husband is 20 yrs my senior, he is 65 (looks 49). Age is int he mind. As the author says, you can never guess what will happen. i have serious arthritis, there are days he is moving faster than me...I have breast cancer in my family on both sides...who si to say that will nto take me out first? Assume nothing...live life and enjoy the gift you have now.
i'm 27, he's 41, and every advice column answer about age-gap marriages end in "well you could die first, you know." depressing thing to hear over and over. surely there are other things to talk about?
Forget the age difference. I'm 51 and in better shape than I was in college. No one should ever, ever pass up happiness with someone because she is afraid she might not get enough years of it.
it's nice to hear from others... i'm 39 and she's 50. greatest relationship ever. the age element is the only real "concern" that exists in our relationship. sometimes it's a little scary, most of the time i know we're ridiculously lucky.
Clock... you're going to be putting him to sleep soon :)
"Pet the Jeffles".. oh man. That's hilarious.
Also, I would take twenty years of happiness with someone I love rather than be without them. We never know what will happen down the road, our own deaths not withstanding, and the truth of it is; seize the day and revel in the love you have NOW.
Clock needs to decide what's most important to her -- being with this guy she supposedly "loves", or her own comfort, convenience, and idealized life. Also, does anyone else think she's sending her (older) man a helluva bunch of mixed signals??? (Oh, "we" love this jeweler, "we've" talked about getting married and having kids soon...but wait, he's actually going to DO it?! Gasp!)
p.s.: Can't decide whether it's sad or scary that the ever-ubiquitous "bearman33" only just now figured out the name of the column. Maybe some time out in the real world would help a bit...
I mentioned before, I have the whole basement to myself, and I don't have to pay rent, why would i deal with the real world? Nerve is all the real world I need, it's my oxygen, the wind beneath my sails, the easy heavy sister with the great personality. What's a few bedbugs on the futon compared to fresh comments doled out daily for our delectation? Mmmmmmmmmmmm. Can you smell what Nerve's cooking? I can.
ugh- to the cat ladymans girlfriend.. I feel your pain. An ex had a cat who hated me. I'm not a cat person but tried to make concessions for Nada... but she hissed and growled and if I slept over jumped onto my head from the nightstand. She would sit in the floor, turn her back to us and pout if we were laying together on the couch... to the point that I actually questioned the nature of his relationship with the cat. I ended things when, after a reallly nice evening was turning into a reallllly nice night.. and he says.. you probably need to leave soon, it upsets Nada when you sleep over... so, I left, and never went back.
Allen- bingo!
Show em what he's won Bob!
You've won a lifetime supply of insight into habitual denial and capriciousness of human beings!!! And a copy of our home game!
No one should get married ever. There, I just solved your age problem.
hm. clock is ticking kind of sounds like a selfish asshole.
We didn't want to get married, but the damned laws are all based upon benefits for married people. So we did it after 11 years of being in love. Hasn't changed a thing about how we feel emotionally, but we feel good about knowing we provided for each other if one dies.
GFo for it Clock is Ticking, but pass on having a family: Newer studies have shown that after 45, men's sperm start getting dodgy (old men make less quality sperm) and like older women -who can pass on Down's- older men's kids have a more likely chance of having cancers when they're older (when the guys have long passed on). I always adored older men and went there frequently, but I just happened to have fall in love with a guy 4 years older and who was much better option as a father in the long run, as in he'll be there when the children are growing up.
My mom and dad are 15 years. (Not 20, but close enough.) Dad provided the sperm for my little brother when he was 52, eight years ago. My little brother is fine. Marriage has worked out well for my parents for 22 years now. Go for it, if you really love him.
Prince Eddie ftw! He needs all the sweaters.
Am I the only crazy cat person on here? I routinely say, 'Pet the Pretty! Pet the Pretty!' while brandishing Pretty the cat at my husband. It would've been a deal breaker if he wasn't nice to the cat. Tenderness towards pets is a sign of a kind heart, even if he is being silly.
And the cat attacks you because it's jealous. Cats are very sensitive about cuddling (I think they see it as wasted petting). I suppose if you want to be with him long term, the relationship will outlive the cat with any luck.
Wow, Miss Information,
What a great way to make the last writer's problem simpler and an easier decision to make for her: oh, you're having second thoughts about the marriage? Are you sure you love him? Seems like, if you're having second thoughts, you might not really love him, or just, ha, love him enough.
THERE WE GO. Thank you Miss Information, just throw that extra baggage on top, throw it on the pile! Now it's no longer just "can I go through with this?" it's also "do I love him even if I'm not proving it in the arbitrary way Miss Information told me was the important one" and "am I a dishonest person who's been lying to myself the whole time or will I raise my husband as a manchild, because that's what love is all about!" After all, you know, she might get hit by a car anyway. So because Miss Information is having this existentialist crisis about how all of her own advice is potentially advice, the clear answer is that the lady should stick with the guy 20 years older than her, if I'm reading between the lines right.
Really, the lady's got to do what she thinks is best for her, not what people try to convince her / guilt her into thinking she's "obligated" to do just cause she dated this dude for a while and likes him (love or like aside).
It's really easy to tell someone ELSE that they don't know the meaning of love or "IF YOU REALLY CARED" when you're not in their shoes.
If you get a good solid 20 years (maybe more!) out of it...you should risk it. If of course, that's the real reason for your ambivalence.
My dad's wife is 16 years younger than him. He's 67, she's 51, and my little brother (their kid) is 13. They met when she was 23 and he was 39. My dad has been sick since they met, with what doctor's think is cancer but cannot find. She is the breadwinner, and he is Mr. Mom. He cleans every day, cooks every day, does the laundry, fixes the house, gardens, studies with my brother, takes him to soccer practice, etc. They don't have sex, and I don't even know if they're still in love, but even sick for over 20 years, he's still alive and very healthy. Agile. I think if he was healthier they'd probably still do it. But it works. Unconventionally so. But it does. No one judges. Everyone thinks they work great together and they do. I don't think you having second thoughts means you don't love him, but I also have a feeling you know deep down inside how you feel, you just need someone to pull it out of you. Kind of like, 'Which outfit should I wear, the one on the left or the one on the right? Your friends says 'right' and you say, 'No, I think I like the one on the left better.' I figure you also wonder what your friends and family will think and say behind your back, but chances are they'll still think and talk behind your back if you married a dude your own age because that's how people are. I'm 27 and dated a guy who was 38 and sometimes I'd have the same thoughts as you. 'Oh God, he'll be 40. Can I have a baby with him?' But love is love. Trust your instinct. The real one. The voice deep inside. Don't worry about anyone else. Don't worry about the worst possible scenario or the best one, because life is never what we expect. Good luck!
Also, don't forget about Viagra!
The writer has already shown that's she's willing to walk out on a previous - for better or worse life long commitment. As long as the health coverage, insurance and other benefits are set up in advance she should be ok. She can just ditch this new victim him when its not in best interest any longer.
After all - he took that route as well
The writer has already shown that's she's willing to walk out on a previous - for better or worse life long commitment. As long as the health coverage, insurance and other benefits are set up in advance she should be ok. She can just ditch this new victim him when its not in best interest any longer.
After all - he took that route as well
The writer has already shown that's she's willing to walk out on a previous - for better or worse life long commitment. As long as the health coverage, insurance and other benefits are set up in advance she should be ok. She can just ditch this new victim him when its not in best interest any longer.
After all - he took that route as well
How can you not love The Jeffles? You've got a keeper there silly!
For every year that I age, the men that I date get about about 5 years older. I'm hoping this pattern stops soon. I'm in my early 20s but I prefer men in their late 30s. I've often had the same fears that Clock is Ticking is expressing in her letter - fortunately I'm nowhere near getting married anytime soon. I think she should go for it and I wish her the best of luck.
Younger women older men... Been going on for thousands of years! It works out pretty well. Do some research!
Greetings! I just wanted to quickly pipe in here. I just turned 40 last week, and my girlfriend turns 23 next week. We JUST starting dating three months ago. For both of us, it's really been blissful so far. Sure, we are in the throes of the romance part of dating, but we were also friends for nearly a year. We also share an amazing bond.
I often think about the age difference, and it does concern me. However, it seems like the more people with whom I speak, the more they tell me not to worry one bit.
Initially, as someone 39, dating someone 22 was out of the question! It's fun now and all, but as it gets serious, oh my! I'll be 57 when she is 40?! Heaven forbid!
But I do have to say... after a lot of reading; research; and introspection... I think love, like, and respect conquers all. I think this is the best relationship I have been in so far. She is wise beyond her years (and being a guy, I am obviously immature beneath my years)!
Interestingly, my last girlfriend was the conventional few years younger than me. Guess what? She was diagnosed with a brain tumor at 34. So... you never know who will be caring for whom...
If you have a success story to tell about a 15 or so age gap difference, please don't hesitate to share it here. It's very empowering for people like me to read!
He's 34 years older (57). My best friend. Wonderful man that everyone, including myself adores. His mom is 80 and outrunning her buddies; he takes after her. I know I may never have him as long as I'd like, but I'll take any time he's willing to share with me. I'll care for him in old age gladly. Payment for all the ways he's cared for me and many others without expecting anything in return. And I hope I have kids that look just like him. He can be "immature", a perpetual little boy. Perhaps that's why he never treats me as less than an equal. It balances out. I am usually pretty unfortunate as a rule. I have kind of accepted that fate gave me one good thing, with the only one bad thing about it being that he's older than me. I'm grateful though, and I have alot of faith.
"50 is the new 35"?? who makes up this delusional bullshit???
also, any guy whos that obsessed with a cat is a fuckin homo. Sorry.
Large age differences have worked for every recent Nicholas Cage character. Does he see the future?
Eh. I'm 22 and typically date "older" guys (5-10 years older than me), but really people? Anything more than a 15-year age gap makes me cringe, god forbid a 34-year gap! I mean, do what makes you happy, but maybe also get your ass to therapy to discuss your absentee father issues?
i'm 15 years older than my boyfriend. our relationship is one of the most intimate, and loving relationships i've had in years. we're both nervous about the age difference...but we're also both thanking our lucky stars for having found each other. no one knows what the future will hold but in the meantime we're enjoying every minute we can...
As long as it isn't hurting anyone and it's not illegal... screw it!
I hardly think sixty is age spotted and SENILE. I think maybe Ms. Clock is a bit shallow and her man could do better. I'm 42 and can think of PLENTY of sexy and virile sixty-year olds. If you are REALLY in love, then WTH is the QUESTION again???
http://adulter-us.com
The lady with the man 20 years older than her probably doesn't have to worry about him being a doddering old coot in his 60s. That will come in another 20 years. So if she's willing to give up 40 years of bliss, she probably isn't ready for marriage no matter what the guy's age.
Whoooaaaaa, buzzd. I feel like you are a jilted ex of Erin's or maybe a recent ex-smoker. That's some rage.
Pet the Jeffles - Sister / brother: I totally empathize. I once dated a guy who had this little dog he was obsessed with. We'll call her "Snazzy" because it rhymes with her real name, except it started with an M and it was Mazzie, her name was Mazzie. Same freaky-ass relationship. I love dogs and I get the fixation on little furry friends, but this dog was psychotic when we'd have sex. She'd growl at me and he loved it. Actually told me it made him feel good that she was so jealous. Anyway, one day I picked the dog up from the groomer (love that our shared bank account paid for it) and when I took her home, he was alone in the room with her for barely ten seconds when he calls me back and says "something's wrong with Mazzie's vagina." Then he screws his face up very emotionally and says in a hushed whisper, "they cut her vagina." There was a red spot near the dog's upper thigh, not a cut, and not a vagina. I just stared at him until he left. I asked him once when he was drunk if he ever fucked the dog. Let's say I am still not convinced.
I just wanted to put your cat-man in perspective. When he starts combing the animal's genitalia for injuries after any prolonged absence, I say you leave that toxic litterbox pronto.
Argh. Younger people truly can't image what the future holds. I'm 44 and in the best shape of my life -- hardly a "relatively svelte" 40-year-old. Men 15 years younger hit on me consistently. My guy is 51, and people routinely think he's younger because of how he carries himself. Both of us feel better now than we ever did in our 20s and early 30s. Guys in their 50s can start to lose it sexually a bit, it's true, but luckily, we live in the age of Viagra. If you love this man and want to have a life with him, lose the worries about what will happen as you age, because truly, you have no idea what it will be like. I know plenty of guys in their early 60s who look 15 years younger due to their lifestyles; they still hike and kayak and stay involved. Getting older does NOT mean submitting to decreptitude!
Bravo for everyone else for being kind, but alas that isn't my style. Sympathy is a wonderful thing but Clock is Ticking doesn't deserve any. A woman who (it seems) ditched her first marriage to be with an older man has no right to complain that he's older than her. I hope her ex-husband sees her letter and has a hearty laugh.
Clock is Ticking: If you have children soon, there's a pretty good chance you'll both see them through college. 70 really isn't THAT old anymore. Plenty of healthy 70 year olds running around, and even running marathons. Before the invention of the "blue pill" your concern about flagging sexual performance might have been founded. Not so much anymore, especially if he continues to work out and stay active.
As with all decisions, you have to weigh the risks. There's a higher chance that he's going to die, either suddenly or from some ailment, in the next 20 years, than someone your own age. Insurance and financial planning will be important. There's a pretty good chance that you're going to bury him, and that he won't live to see your grandkids. You have to weigh those risks against the risk that if you let him go, you'll end up in another "miserable marraige" with someone your own age that'll end anyway, before your kids are grown, and that you'll end up trying to raise your kids alone anyway. As Cait points out, there are no guarantees either way. If you love him and want to be with him, I don't think you've offered any good reason not to.
i am 20 and my boyfriend is 41. he has a little girl who is five from his prevous marriage and she adores me and vice versa. nobody notices our age different that much. they know he is older than me but i carry my self with dignity and maturity that it is hard to tell how much older he is than me. he works at the post office and i have a years left before i get my masters , which will mean i willbe the breadwinner in the house hold. who ever figured that lol. there is this stereotype in the world that women with older men are gold diggers and men with younger women are perverts. i think all that is bullshit. we both split the bills and i take him on trips with my own money. i rarely ask him for anything and we both know our ages are a big gap but our love for each other is more important to us than that. after a while you forget about the age and are happy with each other,becasue guys my age wouldnt get the time of day even if i wasnt with my boyfriend because they are so inmature and i am on a totally different level than they are.
Is that really all there is to it because that'd be flabbersgating.
My husband is 19 years older than me. I wouldn't call our relationship a success story because we've known each other less than a year. But I will say that I have never been happier. He's the older one but I'm the one with more baggage. He has health problems that I know how to handle but I have health problems that are more likely to kill a person at a young age. I never want to have children. The future is uncertain. I can't imagine facing that uncertainty with anyone but my husband. Our "strengths" and "weaknesses" fit together in a beautiful telling of our love story. One ttime, when I was stiff from sitting in a restaurant for too long, my husband picked me up and carried me to the car. Another time, he wanted to carry me because my shoe had broken... I had to convince him that I could still walk just fine. He's more than willing to carry me AND my baggage. We've been married almost five months now. Today is our first Valentine's day together. I love him more every day.