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January 4, 2010
Dear Miss Information,
This past spring I started dating a woman who was six years older than me and had three kids. I didn't have an issue with either of those things because I went into the relationship knowing about them. I also knew that she couldn't have any additional children — again, that was completely fine with me. Our relationship was great; we had a lot in common and our sex life was out of this world. Things kept going strong throughout the summer and into early fall. Then I didn't hear from her for a couple of days. She finally sent me an instant message telling me to leave her alone and stop talking to her, completely out of the blue.
A couple of weeks passed and we finally talked. She told me that I was the greatest lover she'd ever had and that I treated her right, but she thought that I deserved better, even though I told her she was exactly what I wanted. I keep asking her for another chance, but she tells me she's not sure. Some of her actions seem to indicate she'd be open to trying again, but she's not willing to give me a direct answer. Is there anything I can do or say? What do you think would be her reason for doing this? — Extremely Confused with Women
Dear Extremely Confused with Women,
You want to know what I think, Extremely Confused? Honestly? I think she's bullshitting you. I'm a woman and I have no problem with getting something I don't deserve. Why yes, I will take the biggest piece of pecan pie. I will accept that easy job with the big fat raise!
I'm just your typical human being: I want what's best for me, not for you. In your ex's case, that means downgrading or ending the existing relationship with a minimum of guilt and confrontation. And what's better than "you deserve better"? It does triple duty: drops the axe, bolsters the fragile ego of the receiver, and makes the person doing the dumping look like a self-sacrificing saint. Do it right, and you may even be able to get some sympathy out of it, as the person being dumped tries to convince you of your greatness. Anyone who's been through a college romance or four knows that the only thing the ass-kissing and compliments do is give the dumper the confidence and emotional absolution they need to go out and pursue another relationship.
What you see here is avoidance, Extremely Confused, wrapped in gauzy pink window dressing. What's behind that curtain? Tough to say. Maybe she's cheating on you. Maybe she doesn't think you'd make a good father. Maybe she's back with the ex. Maybe she really does have low self esteem , but if it's that bad, then guess what? She's fucked up. You want someone happier and healthier. I'm sure she's nice — nice and fucked up are not mutually exclusive — but sometimes people aren't at a point in their lives where they can be a good mate.
Whatever her motive, it was way uncool to tell you over instant messenger. (What's next? Dumping by tweet?) Give her what she wants — in other words, space. You could take the typical pick-up-artist advice and be a huge dick; maybe she'll come running back. I could see that happening, but I could also see you getting hosed again a couple weeks later. If you want her back and you want it to last, you've got to back off and balance her personal limits with your patience: how much shit are you willing to put up with in the name of love? Only you (and perhaps Meatloaf) know that answer.
Readers, who else has been broken up with over instant messenger? Twitter? Skype? Telegram?
Dear Miss Information,
My boyfriend and I have been together for nine months. Everyone says that after that much time it's pretty normal to hit the point that we've reached — we fight over petty things, we fight over fighting, we fight over the same issues without solving them. We talked about "taking a break" to think about things and figure out how (or if) we want to work through all of this. My question is, what's the best, healthiest way to "take a break"? How often do we talk, do we still hang out, do we see other people ? I'm not interested in seeing other people, and I assume he isn't either. It all seems like such a grey area! — Ugh
Dear Ugh,
Ugh is right. Breaks are the worst. No coffee. No donuts. Just pain. I remember going with an ex-boyfriend to a couples therapist. After hours of crying and fighting, we came in one Tuesday evening and announced we were "taking a break." We thought he would congratulate us for being so mature, perhaps call the other beards and elbow patches into his office for a look at his star patients. Instead, he asked, "Why?" A simple enough question, yet we didn't have an answer. We broke up for good a few sessions later.
I share this not only to let you know in a non-braggy way that I practice what I preach (P.S. — I'm totally bragging), but to emphasize the Why, how it's different from the How, and why both questions are equally important to your overall plan. I'm not saying you shouldn't hammer out whether it's acceptable to fuck other people — that'd be first on my agenda. "Assume" wouldn't be enough for me, no how, no way.
But be careful you don't dive into the logistics before asking the big, overarching questions: "Do I love this person?" and "Is this something I want to put my energy into?" and "Do I see a legitimate possibility of a future or has my gut already given me the answer and I'm just delaying?" Right now, you're probably both so wrapped up in the turmoil that you don't know the answers, but it's worth it to put this shit out on the table. For some couples it'll be a "Yeah, why are we doing this?" kind of moment. Others will use it as a base to go forward — still insecure and scared, but with a bit more clarity.
I can't give you an exact prescription because I only have a paragraph or two of information about your relationship. I do think that the most successful breaks are the ones where the couple has limited communication. They agree on a set of rules and trust the other person to follow them, adjusting only when they no longer feel workable or relevant. They don't use text and other forms of electronic communication to keep the drama addiction going, all the while claiming sobriety because they haven't had face-to-face contact. They put the relationship aside and put themselves at the center. They get independent lives, better lives than they had before. Then, hopefully, they come back together to renew their bond and share what they've learned along the way, while keeping gory details to a minimum.
Readers, what are your opinions on breaks? Should they be "anything goes" or are they a silly idea in the first place?
Have a question? Email erin@nerve.com. Letters may be edited for length, content and clarity.
Commentarium (46 Comments)
By e-mail which isn't quite as bad but sucks. If the relationship is more than a few months old, you deserve better. Also, it's embarrassing to relate to your friends.
My girlfriend of 3 years told me in ONE text message that she was breaking up with me and that she had been cheating on me for 3 months.
I think I know what the deal is with Extremely Confused's ex: she needs more drama and anger. If I'm guessing right, ECwW treats her really well, and when they disagree about something, he's kind, patient, and works to find solutions they can both live with. The problem is that she doesn't want (or isn't ready for) a thoughtful guy -- she wants one who acts like a thoughtless jerk so that she has a pretext to explode with rage. I've seen this a lot with women who can't express anger -- the better their partners treat them, the more resentful they get, because the only catharsis they have is this dysfunctional mutual smackdown, and without an excuse to go ballistic, they get more and more frustrated. The other possibility is the other way around, i.e. that her self-esteem issues make her want somebody who offers the borderline abusive/controlling vibe that some people are drawn to, because it lets them submerge their sense of self in another person's ups and downs. Whichever it is, "You're too good for me" is a really really bad sign, and so is the sudden cutoff of contact. I know it hurts, but get away ASAP.
Very few women actually want a "thoughtless jerk," S.F. Possibly some want someone more direct and less "nice" (i.e. passive aggressive).
I figured I'd get a reply along those lines, but that's really not what I'm talking about, and this doesn't need to be yet another conversation about how "nice guys are really just passive aggressive" or whatever. I'm talking about people who only feel comfortable in situations that are fundamentally broken, and there are a lot of 'em out there. (Also, what people say or think they want, and what they unconsciously are drawn towards, are two very different things.)
I quickly got to the point in my life where if someone says that I'm too good for them, I believe them.
re: ECW I am officially a cliche, because I see myself in ECW's situation. My fiancee broke up with me over email, then told me I was too good for her. After an initial bout of earth-shaking anger I tried to get back in touch, talk to her, etc. only to realize she was seriously unhealthy for me. This article helped me see others run into the same thing. Is that the entire point of advice columns, having been through it you see someone else in the same boat and you feel better?
I think that if you are on a "break" that it's assumed you can see other people. Otherwise it's not really a break, is it? It's just a set period of time to avoid fighting.
Of course she's bullshitting you, Confused. Get the hell out of there sharpish.
Have to agree with Chris on this one.
i agree with erin on these. re: 1st letter, the girl is full of shit and therefore worth hitting the road pronto.
re: 2nd letter, breaks do not work. a break is a break-up by degrees.
I haven't been broken up with via email or text, but there was one breakup I would rather had been so. When I was living in NYC, this girl I was seeing asked me to come out to Brooklyn where she lived. Going to see her required getting on 3 different subway trains and she didn't live close to any subway terminals, so even after all the connections it was a decent hike to her house. Also, this was NYC in the middle of winter, so it was butt ass cold.
Yeah, she had me make that trek just to break up with me as soon as I got to her door.
EC: You found some trash. Be glad that its not stuck to you.
UGH: The only break is the permanent break.
Jackson, I dated her, too!!! Three-train trip to Brooklyn in the winter snow, except after getting out to Brooklyn, I got to buy her lunch first! Oh, and she wanted to be "friends" after that. Nuh-uh.
ECW: She's the passive-aggressive one. She can't handle confrontation. She wants out, but is terrified of displeasing you. My guess is that she had a controlling father and a controlling ex-husband. She's on a journey of repetition compulsion, and since you're not controlling enough for her psychodrama, you get the heave ho. I that respect, she's bizarrely right: You are too good for her. Run away fast and consider yourself lucky you dodged that bullet.
Ugh: If you take a break, you've broken up. I've never heard of anyone who "took a break" and got back together for any kind of protracted period. Sit down and figure out what you two really want, what the disputes really are -- very often we fight over things that are not what the fights are really about (control, intimacy, fear of commitment, fear of abandonment, etc., etc.). Then figure out if you can resolve them or not.
Poor Jackson! I'm so sorry. That sucks ass. You too, ProfRobert.
I once worked with a guy who was in a six year relationship. He went on his dream trip, a six-month safari to Africa, without his girlfriend. 3 months into the trip he let her fly all the way to Africa for a visit, just to break up with her...
A temporary break is like temporary death...permanent. Deal w/the issues or just move on.
I once made the mistake of dating a coworker in a small office -- I was the only single female, and he was the only single, straight guy. Soon after we started dating, our company moved to a new office, and our boss rearranged our seats. A few months later, the guy dumped me over an instant message in the middle of the day at work -- while sitting right across from me.
LOL AWESOME
Have to agree with most of these comments, Ugh. No such thing as a break.
If "everyone" is saying it's normal to fight like children over and over after nine months, you need new people in your life. Unless you're teens or early 20s, then you're just figuring out how good sex can be, and the relationship will either end, or you'll end up pregnant and the game starts all over. My lady, it's a bad sign regardless of how you look at...
It lasted for 9 months for a reason, and it wasn't about the fighting (unless you're both as emotionally disturbed as Extremely Confused's lady). If and only if you were a guy, I'd suggest you try and keep a fuck buddy...but you're not, so move on. Really. Fighting over fighting?
Oh man,I thiught I was going to win "most fucked up breakup" until I read K's post. When I was a broke, starving grad student, spent my last money to fly cross-country to spend our anniversary with my long-time boyfriend> he told me he'd fallen in love with someone else. I asked why the hell he let me spend $600 to learn this. He said, "It didn't seem like the kind of thing one should do over the phone." I mean, that's true, but I really needed that money. (Ironic twist--we took a 6-month or so unintended break while I finished grad school, and we've been together for 10 years since. So maybe the lesson for the second writer is that a break apparently can work, but only if it's a real, total, seemingly irrevocable break.)
Wow so many inconsiderate bastards/bitches making their soon-to-be-exes come to them to break up with them because they're "too caring" to do it over the phone. Note to these scumbags...you're supposed to go to your soon-to-be-exes place and breakup with them there. Then they can wallow in their own place while you take 6 trains/planes/whatever back to your place. Obviously you're not "caring" at all, nor very humane. If you made a long trek only to get dumped, you should feel lucky that you dodged a bullet. Your ex was an inconsiderate scumbag. And no, this has never happened to me, I'm just appalled at this behavior.
I was dumped via text once. We had only been dating a month so it wasn't a long term thing but I still thought it was pretty shitty. On the other hand, when someone is that thoughtless, it's a pretty good indication that you're lucky to be rid of them.
Second answer was great, but the first one will not win any awards for best Miss Info ever. Citing "Pick-Up Artist" strategies, even jokingly? Bleh.
In the first letter, I also think there is about a metric ton of missing information being left out by the writer. There's a lot more going on there. But ultimately, "let her go" works best either way, so who cares, I guess.
when you decide you want a break you've already (more or less) unconsciously decided you want out. it doesn't mean you want somebody else, it just means you want out. sure, the ideal idea of how a break should work is wonderful in theory. practice leads to different things.
i don't think two people could ignore the "gory details" when they come back together. sure, things would be more 'person oriented" not relationship-oriented for a while. but sooner or later the bad things will return, as a sign that there are problems that haven't been dealt with.
in the end breaks are just easier break-ups. if you want to stay in the relationship you have to become conscious of how ridiculous you have become (and your partner should realise that too). then you can patiently work your way through, understanding and communicating openly about what went wrong and overcoming nasty situations in the natural dynamic of things. "breaks" are not part of a natural dynamic. who really sees them as so?!
To Ugh - I don't know how old you are but if you are fighting after dating only nine months it is "not normal". Break up and walk away, quickly. Nine months in you should still be in honeymoon phase not at each others throats...
And I have to confess that I broke up with two serious long distance boyfriends via snail mail. (Not to date myself, but this was before people had email - can't say if I wouldn't have done it that way if it had been a few years later...)
After two years of an emotionally intense, sexually never-to-be-surpassed-before-or-since, with a presumably serious 'this might be my longtime partner' GF, I was informed via text on a Sunday morning that I was summarily dumped. This is not what galls, however, looking back. It was the timing and the trigger of the event. Financially stable and generous with my time and resources to provide us with a fun and varied life in the City - and we all know how expensive dinners, drinks, sporting events, theater and vacations can be - I had lost a good paying job two months previously and our social life of necessity had to be reduced. I'd invited my GF over for dinner one Friday - a concession to dining out - and in the course of a harried day of job hunting, phone calls and email inquiries, lost track of the time and failed to get to the cooking. I hurried to the Food Emporium to salvage some sort of half-prepared entree for us, which didn't meet with my GF's expectations after her "hard week of work." She sputtered resentfully over our not having gone out for more than once that month, and when I said I needed to take a walk (to cool off and avoid reacting to her narcissistic outburst) she beat a path to a cab and went home. A day went by during which she was "thinking about things," and then Sunday, I received the break-up text.
I did see her again once or twice thereafter, for closure, which, for some reason, still hasn't yet come completely after two subsequent years. There is love still there in my heart - yes, irrational, blind to reality, unbreakable heart yearning for someone who showed signs throughout our relationship of having deeply buried family of origin issues that played out repeatedly in unfounded jealousy, passive-aggressive emotional shutdowns, and unfortunately timed scenes. And damming the whole experience, there remains the still vivid memory of the unforgettable eros we shared. Had she not been the best lover I'd ever known in 30-plus years, she might be easier to tuck away on the dusty shelf of memory. You know, walk away and move on; not just literally, but inwardly. But I haven't yet. Please feel free to offer insights based on similar experiences that might help remove this curse.
I totally understand the angst of the sexy mum and I feel like Miss I was just awful. She isn't pathologically insecure just logically insecure. Nerve is a place where guys will tell you to your virtual face that kids are a turn off -of course she feels anxious! I think if the dude really wants to be with Mrs Robinson and the crew he needs to let her know he will make some kind of commitment to her. If he doesn't want to do that than that is exactly what she was trying to figure out.
Zachary - It's your fault, plain and simple. You, my friend, were looking for exactly what you got. I've no doubt it was the most intense, mind-blowing 2 years of your life. Besides the physical nature of the relationship, you emotionally and financially put her on a pedestal, and then paid the price.
Speaking from experience, it takes therapy and a change of lifestyle to get over someone like that. Keep repeating day after day that you've yet to find your great love, and take up skydiving...I'm not even joking. Best of luck.
I actually wrote that letter several months ago to inquire about my (still current) boyfriend. We didn't take a break, but just a few days apart to cool off before really figuring out what we wanted to do. The advice above about figuring out what the real issues were was the best. The advice saying if I was in my 20s, I'd end up pregnant was horrible :) I'm 25 and can't have children - oops.
The comment about pregnancy wasn't advice, it was an observation on the bizarre circumstances that surround couples who enjoy constant turmoil - not to be taken out of context.
It's very unfortunate you can't have children. But you offering up that fact, even if in an anonymous fashion, may provide insight into how you approach personal relationships. Does sympathy = self-esteem?
Just an observation - no advice included. J Good luck with the guy...
Now. for the first one. I am a person with poor confidence. And I have broken up with people because I thought they deserved better than me. As Miss Information would say, I am "fucked up". That's a great confidence booster, thanks. But anyways. I'd like to add. From the information given. Sounds like your a toy. "Stop talking to her"? No..if she did like/love you she wouldn't say something so mean..She's just bullshitting you...unless you're like a crazy person that calls her every ten seconds and can't leave her alone for a minute...that's just creepy.
Regarding Extremely Confused, as a pick-up artist myself, I resent the notion that we would give the advice to be a "jerk" (you used a different word) to an ex that dumped you. That is not advice we would give, I suggest reading some of our literature and you'll see what I mean.
Actually, your advice is pretty close. Your reading of her behavior: letting him down easy, avoiding conflict, etc, is dead-on. This girl is afraid of hurting his feelings and lacks the courage to be honest. She's probably back with the father of her children.
My advice, which is the advice the pick-up community would give is this: get out and start dating immediately. Do online dating, do speed dating, pay your buddy who's a natural with women to give you some tips, or search for pick-up and take a workshop with a local dating coach. Whatever you decide, get out there and meet women.
In the meantime, go radio silence with the ex. Give her the gift of thinking about you. The best revenge is a life well lived. Go out have fun, date other girls.
In a few weeks or months, she'll wonder what happened, and will likely contact you to see what's up. DO NOT ask her out on a date. DO NOT tell her about the women you're dating. INSTEAD, paint a picture of the wonderful social life you're having, all the new friends you've made, maybe even some traveling you've done. Whatever you do, don't act needy, clingy or creepy, and don't act like a "jerk". A "jerk" is someone who's rude, who has an "I'm okay, you're not okay" attitude. You want to take the attitude of a guy who's confident and content with his life and doesn't NEED a woman but is satisfied with his love life. It's an "I'm okay, you're okay" approach.
So when she contacts you, paint a vivid picture of your exciting new life. End and contact with an open-ended question like "How about you? What are you up to these days?" Keep the emails going back and forth like that, and I guarantee within a few emails, she'll suggest a meet-up. I suggest you decline graciously and walk away with a smile on your face knowing you had the last laugh. But if you choose to re-connect, do so at your own peril, , because this girl is damaged goods.
This concludes advice from a real pick up artist....
I broke up with a boyfriend on IM once, but in my defense, he refused to talk to me on the phone and had been for three months (it was long distance). I asked if we could talk; he was talking to his sister a the time. Okay, did he know when we could talk? No, not really. I'd gotten maybe ten words out of him over the course of the week I'd been home after flying to see him, and I decided that if I didn't do it right then, even though I had promised myself that I would never break up with someone over IM, I would lose my nerve. I feel like this was an acceptable time to break up with someone via IM.
Oh, so I was moving out of my apartment in Germany, packing luggage, selling furniture, leaving town in short, to go spend a month with him in another city the next day, then to go on to vacation together in France. He was acting really weird beforehand, and decided to leave the day before (I was going to join him 2 days later), so I did all my packing/moving/carrying stuff by myself, then at the last minute, I receive an e-mail from him saying he's been a jerk to me, and yes, I do deserve better, yadayada. So then I was left with 4 suitcases, no money (because I had already bought our train tickets for the vacation), and nowhere to go...
i miss my girl. she dumped me. still want her. she still has shit at my house. i dont know what to do. i feel used. but i still feel like there is a chance for us.
if you LOVE her AND MISS her GO PLAY POPey the sailerman and throw Bluto in the GARBAGE CAN dont just sit there Unless you find out she left you for a Druggie
What does it mean when me and my girlfriend planned something to do for our anniversary and a week before our anniversary she tells me that she has something to do that weekend and i don't know what to do please up me?
if you have friends that she dosint Know ASK a favore and HAVE them keep an @L@ EYE on things and report back to you
I've been with my guy for six years, now- 9 months, then a six month "break", then back together for another six months before moving in together. How did the "break" work? We still talked regularly, saw each other once a week or so, both flirted with strangers regularly, and neither of us slept with anybody. Yes, it was sometimes painful (particularly that halloween and him in the oh so sexy costume), but by the time we got back together we knew a lot more about each other, and a lot more about how much we really liked each other, even without sex clouding perceptions.
long time ago in the 80,s i had the same thing Except We didint fight i worked Swing Shift MY former girl HAD a sweet little Daughter I helped her out we moved in I had asked her to marrie me twice Nothing! one night i came home dsesi was in her room crying i went in and asked her if i could help she told me sence i was working nights her mom was seeing another guy THAT there broke my heart 7 inahalf years together at leat i wasint the bad person but destiny i miss you this is the lil girl the mom is a druggy
i want to talk my love i see her every day but......
hey able IF you LOVE her GO GET it DONE UNLESS THE DRUGS ARE IN THE System IF SO cast your Line REEL ANOTHER in
i love this song and? you guys are so funny!
TheCarolinehope
I LIKE THIS SONG !! SHOULD I STAY?? OR SHOULD I GO!! THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE TO KNOW!! I my self i am very LUCKY. im in my 7th year of a great marrage IT is tough AT times. but we always work it out! if you love some one and you get angry at HIM or HER let the FIRE go OUT, SAY your Sorry AND begin Another Day ! YOU CAN! do this! unless you realy dont love the person your with. THATS IT all of you (Good Luck )HAVE A GREAT DAY :P
zsQIix Sorry for the off-topic, could you tell where I can get such a nice pattern for my blog ???
Now you say something