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July 16, 2011
Miss Information
Why do I keep dating guys I need to babysit?
By Cait Robinson
Have a question? Email missinfo@nerve.com. Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.
Dear Miss Information,
Lately, I've noticed my boyfriend hangs out with girls and doesn't tell me about it, which makes me feel insecure and jealous. Though I don't think he's cheating on me or has any intention of doing so, I don't understand why he's so secretive. He claims it's because I act jealous, but I really only feel jealous when I hear about some girl weeks later. Recently, I admit, I snooped through his phone after he went on a trip to Vegas. While he was there he visited a girl who was an old friend. I felt so betrayed and angry that he didn't just tell me he saw her. When I confronted him and asked why he lied, he claimed it wasn't a lie because he just didn't tell me — had he made up some alternate story, then it would have been a lie.
I keep telling myself I'm being neurotic and controlling, and that it shouldn't matter because he's not interested in these girls and because he loves me. But I can't help but feel betrayed and left out somehow, like there's this part of his life he doesn't want to include me in. I get that he has friends and a life that I won't be a part of all the time, and I respect that; I just don't understand why saying "I visited my old friend today" is such a big deal. I tried to explain this to him before he went on his trip, and he assured me he'd tell me if he hung out with this girl, then he didn't. Am I justified in feeling like he should tell me who he's with?
— The Jealous Girlfriend
Dear The Jealous Girlfriend,
You asked him to tell you whom he sees while he is in Vegas — with a special attention to his one lady friend, correct? And then, when he failed to bring home any news, you snooped through his phone? I'm sorry, Jealous, but that's a breach of trust on your part, and it's unfair.
You seem sure that he loves you and and is faithful, which is great. So why do his social comings and goings matter? Could something deeper be going on here? Do you have specters of cheating partners in your past? Is it possible that your own social life is lacking, so you feel the need to live vicariously through his? Whatever the reason, the jealous behavior here is a symptom, but not the whole problem. It seems like there is a lot of secrecy and evasion going on between the two of you, and it's worth figuring out why.
First, apologize for searching his phone, and mean it. It's unfortunate that what you found validated your fears, but that doesn't justify the snooping. Then tell him about your insecurities, and ask for his help and support. For instance, an explanation like, "I'm nervous around Alicia because I know you two used to date" is more workable than "Here is a tracking device, and if it runs out of batteries, I will call your mother." Changes should be made, but it needs to be a two-person effort. It can't be a mandate that you hand down and then are charged with policing.
Punishing yourself for being "controlling" and "neurotic" only fans the flames of inadequacy, and that worsens the insecurity. He's with you for a reason, jealous behavior and all. Don't worry about grabbing onto him — you already have him. Assume security in the relationship, and work on strengthening it with trust and honesty.
Dear Miss Info,
I'm starting a new, fun job, just moved into a new place, and am distancing myself from a couple of toxic relationships. I'm at a pretty promising point in my life, I guess. I say "I guess" because I seem to give myself fresh starts constantly, and they never work out quite right.
I'm keenly aware of what I need to change about myself. But no matter how many times I tell myself to stop doing something — "never again will I talk bad about so-and-so / share someone else's secrets / order things off the internet I can't afford / eat fast food / sleep past noon / talk about my trust fund;" the list is virtually endless — I find myself doing that very thing, sometimes within hours. And I don't realize it's happening until immediately after it's too late.
It's never dangerous; I actually have pretty awesome self-control when it comes to sex, drugs, reckless behavior, and whathaveyou. But I feel like I'm in a nearly decade-long personality rut that's keeping me from being the person I'd like to be, and poisoning current and potential relationships.
I've tried all the gimmicks, from fastidious list-making to public declarations, but nothing seems to keep me from doing the exact opposite of what I had hoped for. Pile disappointment on top of the mile-long list of faults I've found in myself, and you have a lot of self-doubt. And I feel like it's all connected; until I straighten myself out, I'm going to keep dating the same guys that I feel like I have to babysit. I'm not looking for "love yourself the way you are" advice — there's nothing wrong with trying to be a better person! I just don't know where to go from here.
— Full of Fail
Dear Full of Fail,
Oh, you don't want to hear "love yourself the way you are?" That's a shame, because I only dispense advice I find on throw pillows. You're the most beautiful and unique of all the snowflakes, you know? Dance like nobody's watching.
I am, of course, kidding. An eye toward self-improvement never hurt anyone, and I applaud you for trying. A while ago, I was talking to a friend about very similar themes. (Oh, by the way — you're not that unique of a snowflake.) My friend is a physician's assistant, a doula, and full-time great. After listening to my self-critique, she said vaguely, "Well, I have been thinking a lot lately about negative pleasure. What kind of negative pleasure are you getting from this?"
I was taken aback. "Well, none. I'm failing, and I'm mad at myself." She just nodded sagely, then walked away to make tea. That conversation stuck in my brain like a thorn. The next time I found myself hate-eating a carton of Chicken McNuggets, I realized exactly what she was talking about. Failure sucks, and is frustrating. But really listen in: even when you're pissed at yourself, there is often some perverse pleasure in it.
Maybe you keep dating guys you have to babysit because you secretly appreciate the purpose and power it affords you. Maybe you can't stick to a healthier diet because failing feeds this sense of, "Why bother? I don't deserve better." Maybe telling your friends' secrets makes you feel like an insider. Who knows? But figuring out what these behaviors do for you will help you figure out why you keep doing them.
Fighting unhealthy patterns — as you've learned — often makes them worse. Think of these impulses like petulant children. If you yell "Stop it!" that impulse will scream and bite your ankle, then call 911 on you for no reason, and nothing gets accomplished. But if you crouch down, look directly into that behavior's PB&J-smeared face, and ask, "What's up?" you'll get further. Take a cooperative tone with your impulses, and you'll find it easier to get to what is actually driving them.
Meditation and introspective yoga practices are excellent for tuning out ambient bullshit and focusing on yourself. And if/when you slip up, acknowledge it without beating yourself up, then gently move yourself back to center. This takes practice, but it can be done.
Judging from your tone, FoF, you're doing okay. You seem pretty self-assured, and these are problems we all experience. (If you need more throw pillows, hit up your nearest Cracker Barrel.) Just lighten up your grip on yourself, and I think you'll find everything gets easier.
PS: If you're interested in meditation and can stomach the clip art of lily pads, I'm a fan of Tara Brach. She's a clinical psychologist and meditation teacher, plus an all-around cool lady. You can also get podcasts about meditation for free on iTunes, if you want a place to start.
Commentarium (53 Comments)
@FoF - Sounds like you are trying to do too many things at once. Consider just taking one of the things you want to work on and focus only on that. After a period of a weeks (around 3 weeks I would say) add another thing you want to work on....etc. I've been the king of trying to pile on to much self improvement at once and ended with, at the very least, nothing to show for it, or worse, an injury. Gradual change is far more likely to be successful. Good luck!
Came here to say exactly this and found it had already been said. Make a priority list of all the things you want to change and then work on only the top two. Also understand that self-improvement is a constant, on-going process, one that will have some failures and setbacks. It's up to you to not let the minor (or major) inevitable failures throw you off. Keep working on yourself. It's always worth it.
The first LW's boyfriend sounds like a bit of a jerk, and I'm surprised Miss Info only told off the LW for her behaviour. In a good relationship, the boyfriend should have attended to the LW's concerns, tried to understand where she was coming from, and given her the information she wanted to ease her mind. She's only asking whom he's meeting, this is really not anywhere near over-the-top jealous behaviour. Instead, he's being evasive - why? - and making her feel like she's overstepping some invisible boundary that shouldn't even be there.
Also, this point is controversial, but I believe that in a truly good relationship, 'snooping' is simply not an option - each person allows the other full access to their e-mail accounts/phones, and each partner trusts the other enough to never have to check through them.
Final point, if LW has a strong feeling that something is wrong, then something very well might be, and her boyfriend's behaviour is sketchy. She should try one last time to communicate with him and give him a chance to answer her honestly. If he's still evasive, she needs to ask herself why her boyfriend disrespects her feelings for the sake of doing exactly as he pleases.
I completely agree! LW1 is not being overly neurotic; her boyfriend's behavior is toxic.
My ex did the exact same thing to me all the time--he would play tennis doubles with his ex, or have drinks with female friends, and then he'd lie (or white lie, it's really the same) about where he had been and I'd only find out about it much later. I explained to him over and over again that I didn't mind him hanging out with female friends, and in fact encouraged us having separate healthy social lives, but that his purposefully keeping these hangouts from me made it seem sketchy as hell, whether they were or not. If it is not a big deal, then why not just let me know? And if I communicated to him that it bothers me, shouldn't he care enough to try to adjust his behavior? It isn't a big deal, after all! I now believe that he was doing this to assert his complete independence from me because he had a phobia of any responsibilities (like caring for another person) that come with being in a committed relationship. Needless to say, our relationship ended horribly.
I am now with a wonderful dude who has no problem saying things like, "I'm gonna have drinks with Megan tonight to catch up!" and neither of us feel weird about it at all. I think Miss Info was a bit off on this one.
So without any information regarding: a) how long LW1 & her boyfriend have been dating, or b) what the established patterns of behavior from both of them have been, you two feel qualified to pass your armchair psychologist judgement based upon your own negative experiences with men. Wow, Hooked on Phonics clearly worked for the two of you.
Does the LW's boyfriend tell her about EVERY friend with whom he hangs out, even if it's just Lars & the Death Metal Gang from his LARPing weekends? Or is he only REQUIRED by the LW's neuroses to tell her when he's hanging out with someone with internal plumbing? If the LW trusts her boyfriend, why does he need to maintain a visitor's log of every friend he sees & give her a nightly report. Much as I usually DON'T agree with Cait, in this case she's right. The LW needs to get over her insecurities, and the boyfriend probably does need to be a little bit proactive (but only if he isn't going to get the 3rd degree every time he's in social contact with someone with a vagina).
To No MisInformatioN:
Wow, no need for the snippity tone, please!
I'm pretty sure the comments section exists entirely for completely subjective judgments from all of us.
I stand by my stance that LW1 doesn't seem overly controlling, and if LW1 has told her boyfriend she would like him to let her know if he hangs out with females, and it is truly not anything more than just friends hangin' out, then he should be able to do so. It's pretty natural actually and does not need to be framed as nightly reports.
FofF, do you have adult ADHD? This rang true to me, and medication halted that ugly cycle quick. It isn't a magical pill that fixes everything, but it will give you a little bit of extra footing (if you have it). Just an idea.
I was thinking the same thing. Even if you don't take any medication, just knowing that you have it and that those tendencies in yourself are there because of your brain affords a little relief. Having a therapist, etc. to help coach you a little bit and help you figure out where to start is key. They can help you figure out the emotions behind your actions. (Ex. I am get upset when I am wrong because early in life, if I didn't do something perfectly, I was made to feel stupid).
Making sweeping changes and saying, "I will NEVER do (whatever) again," puts a lot of pressure on you and sets you up for failure, especially if you're trying to change habits that took you years to create/perfect. Keeping changes do-able so as not to overwhelm yourself is a really important part to actually following through. Bottom line: Getting tested won't hurt and can help you find better strategies.
Granted I have no credentials and Ding would probably know better from personal experience, but I really hesitate to possibly labeling FofF with ADHD. My impression was that FofF was just stuck on these smaller personal things that she couldn't deal with effectively on her own. Lots of people are guilty of digging themselves into deeper ruts. But since she seems like she's doing well in her career, etc, I kind of assumed her focus was generally fine.
Adult ADHD has a lot of different faces. People assume if you can sit down to read a book, or there is activity you excel in, then you must not have it. I know people who were finally diagnosed in med school, and had done fine in school up until that point. The things that jump out to me that maybe Ding saw are FoF's not being able to control or struggling with not blurting things out, sleeping until noon (that's a really common trait for ADHDers. They tend to be comfortable in the 3am to 11am sleeping schedule), personal relationships suffering because of impulsiveness, a tendency to talk about yourself or reveal personal information at inappropriate times, always needing something very stimulating (like moving to an exciting new place, starting exciting new career, especially if this has happened several times). Again, any one of those things taken alone could explain anyone, but the combination as well as a few other things can point to ADHD. Knowing that there is something in your brain that makes certain actions and relationships more difficult for you might help you get away from the negativity you are directing at yourself (another classic sign of an adult who hasn't been diagnosed) and try some new approaches. There is always stimulant medicine, but you can avoid that if you don't want to try that route and just learn about it. I recommend for anyone who's interested, (pardon this ridiculous fucking title), "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Crazy, or Stupid?" get the updated version of the book. It explains more in depth about challenges presented by ADHD and how to deal with them.
I
So interesting that you brought up ADHD. I felt very much like FoF in many ways -- wanting to change things about myself, feeling stuck in a rut (like I wasn't living life as the person I felt I truly was), etc. I'm 24 and got diagnosed a few months ago and started talking to a therapist and taking medication. I've really noticed a change in my self-esteem, and I am amazed at how intertwined it is in so many parts of my life. I've got a lot of work to do, but I don't feel like such a collossal failure anymore.
I am also surprised how a change in my day-to-day habits has a domino effect on other areas of my life. For example, medication has drastically curbed my impulsive eating tendencies (a HUGE source of stress and anxiety and feelings of failure) which in turn has allowed me to eat healthier foods/plan my meals, which in turn makes me feel better physically and save me money.
Of course, it's very possible FoF doesn't have ADHD, and just shares some traits with those adults that do, but it could be worth examining. Just wanted to add my experience because it took me a while to see how it connected to the "big picture."
@The Jealous Girlfriend, your boyfriend sounds a lot like my ex (who dumped me because he wanted a never-ending stream of female attention that he couldn't fully take advantage of while in a relationship)....
If he genuinely cares about you, he should be capable of respecting the relationship boundaries you're comfortable with and you've set together. There's nothing wrong with wanting to know that he's hanging out with another woman (especially when you aren't there and it's not even in the same city). And I'm also in the Dan Savage school of snooping, which is that sometimes it's justified and it's not the big sin everyone makes it out to be: no one's entitled to some ironclad level of privacy in a relationship.
But the fact that you DID have the urge to snoop is what's telling here. I always had that urge with my ex, and when I did occasionally look through his email I always found something unpleasant, deceptive, and hurtful. We would have conversations about small things (like, please tell me when you're hanging out with female friends and I'm not around), and then he'd blatantly ignore that request because he decided I didn't need to know. On the other hand, I've had just as many opportunities to snoop in my husband's email; I've never once wanted to because he's demonstrated time and again that he's trustworthy and respectful of those same negotiated boundaries.
A kind of privacy for being an individual is a healthy thing in a relationship, but you say it feels like "he doesn't want to include you" in part of his life in a way that involves dishonesty. He's withholding information about whom he sees as a way to control you (my ex did the same), and that's neither honest nor respectful, given where you want the relationship boundaries to reasonably be. Have another conversation about that, and if he won't respect you, you are much better off without him. Find someone who's adult enough to negotiate and respect those boundaries without making you feel insecure, jealous or neurotic!
Exactly this. I have the same experience, an ex who made me feel insecure and jealous with his behaviour, and that made me feel compelled to snoop. When I finally did, I found very unpleasant things - not outward cheating, but very hurtful behaviour, what I would call emotional cheating.
With my current and adored boyfriend, who is much more mature and respectful, there have been no such issues. He always leaves his phone and computer open around me and gives me all his passwords, but I never feel compelled to snoop. And I know that he won't react negatively if I am bored one day and look through some of his files. Neither one of us has anything to hide.
Some partners, bad ones, truly do drive one to be insecure and jealous, even when that's not one's usual nature, and those partners deserve the boot. Immediately.
No kidding! I had no idea that a relationship could be drama-free and full of trust until I met my husband, and we actually had mature, adult conversations about how to negotiate these things in a way that was workable for both of us.
Seattle Blonde, I think you're missing a piece of this equation. The key is boundaries that are set, wait for it, together. Nattering at him like a harpy whenever he hangs out with a female isn't a violation of a relationship boundary to which he has not agreed. It sounds like the LW has some expectations she either hasn't clearly communicated, or which are lost on the boyfriend because of her jealous behavior. It also sounds like the boyfriend clearly needs some "me" time, and the LW isn't respecting that because of her jealousy. I think both of these parties need a bit of a reset - the boyfriend does need to be more forthcoming about his social companions, but the LW needs to not react negatively every time he hangs out with another woman.
And Oh my, maybe your boyfriend really has given you the keys to the kingdom, but don't think just because he's given you all his public usernames and passwords that he doesn't have a secondary set of accounts hidden away somewhere. Just about every browser has a privacy mode that doesn't record history, doesn't record to the cache, etc. And, for the record, you are never "compelled to snoop". Snooping, whether justified or not, is a choice one makes.
You should try to fit in a few more ridiculous female stereotypes. I don't think "nattering at him like a harpy" really drove it home for everyone. Jealous behavior or not, both partners are at fault for the supposed miscommunication you keep mentioning. It shouldn't be all on the LW as the female in the relationship to communicate her needs more effectively. Especially when in her letter, she indicates that she has asked him to tell her when he hangs out with other females, which we have to assume he agreed to, as is tacitly implied in the letter. LW explains that even after her request, he denied or omitted any information about hanging out with other women.
If there's anyone not communicating, it seems to be the LW's boyfriend, since he refuses to mention who he is spending his time with. If there is nothing wrong with hanging out with other women, why does he feel the need to keep this information from the LW? Isn't the LW's boyfriend disrespecting her through lying by omission and not informing her that he needs some "me time"? Both parties are responsible for communicating their needs effectively, regardless of gender.
And, for the record, I would argue that someone can be compelled to snoop. To be compelled to do something is to be influenced on your choice of action. There are myriad forces of influence surrounding all behavior that people undertake, so I think it's hard to separate one's actual choice and the influence that compels someone to make that choice.
Ridiculous female stereotypes? You should re-read the bloody letter, as well as Cait's response to it. The LW states that the boyfriend doesn't tell her when he hangs out with girls because she acts jealous, although she's quick to rationalize that by saying she only *really* feels jealous when she hears about some girl weeks later. So the boyfriend has to inform the LW, who opens her second paragraphs by saying, "I keep telling myself I'm being neurotic and controlling", every time he has a drink with a platonic acquaintance who just happens to have internal plumbing? Does the LW expect a full accounting of social acquaintances who have penises? Do you see how ridiculous this is? If the LW were my girlfriend, I'd take the advice of a real advice columnist, Mr. Savage, and DTMFA.
And no, nobody is "compelled" to snoop. It sounds to me like the boyfriend is not "lying by omission", which is a ridiculous concept anyway. The LW clearly has some jealousy and control issues which have clearly gotten out of control, which is why Cait attempted to inject a little sense into her insecurities. If I had to hear an evening (or even a half hour) of jealous screeching from my better half every time I went to see a Harry Potter movie with a platonic female friend of mine, I might not tell her just to avoid the inevitable blowup. As Cait says, why do his social comings & goings matter?
You should try something other than being a one-trick rhetorical pony.
No MisInformation is so obviously the boyfriend of LW1!!!!
Jealous Girlfriend, I really identify with this, though I don't do the snooping anymore (did once or twice, felt horribly guilty afterward and decided I'd rather take the chance on trust instead of being so controlling over my boyfriend). Jealousy and suspicion used to be a huge issue between my boyfriend and I until we reached a workable compromise. Here's what worked for us:
I filter through all the crazy thoughts, demands, and accusations, and strive to only express the thoughts that are reasonable and fair requests. Example: if I have a wild suspicion he is emailing with some ex-girlfriend, though I have not a single reason to suspect that, I just take a few breaths, tell myself I refuse to be terrorized by my insecurities and instead ask him to tell me how much he loves me. If I am really bothered by this thought and need to talk it out, I approach it more from a "hey, I am feeling really insecure today and having paranoid thoughts. Will you help me through this?" instead of something more accusatory that ends up hurting him.
However, if he is going to hang out one on one with another single girl (meaning not someone who is an old friend or friend's wife, etc), I just ask that he let me know ahead of time. I don't expect him to ask me for permission, but I do expect him to honor the fact that the terms of our relationship involve refraining from certain activities that cause unnecessary stress. The most important thing is that I grant him this same consideration, and it works out well for us. I think this works for us because we agreed on it, but I can see how a many people would want more "freedom" than this. I think it is important to find someone who you can agree on this stuff with....
Trust is important, but we all need boundaries to keep us accountable and honest. People give into temptation all the time, but you don't have to pave the way for them to do it. On the flip side, you also don't have to call them a philandering asshole every time he is in the same room as another woman.
Good luck. The main concern should be that both of you should want to make sure you conduct is not harming the other. If one of you is doing something that you know hurts the other .... don't do that, so long as the request is reasonable. I think you asking him to let you know if he hangs out with a certain person who is obviously an issue for you in another city is a pretty reasonable request. I'm sure there will be dozens of comments saying that any sort of behavior like this is controlling and pathetic. Just figure out what works for you two.
for FOF, is all of this stuff really such a failure? I mean, about eating fast food, it seems that you like it. Do you eat other things too? If so, stop casting having some
McDonald's as some high-level "FAILURE" and something that MUST CHANGE NOW, with that kind of attention on it, it's no wonder you wind up with a craving. Decide to eat, when you are hungry, what you actually want. I can almost guarantee that will not be a bunch of junk food - it just won't have a ton of failure/success/etc all over it.
It's also FINE to sleep past noon sometimes, unless you're in a serious economic situation it doesn't matter if you ate rice and beans for a few days because you spent an extra $30 on the internet, etc. I mean, the "share others' secrets" stuff could theoretically have repercussions for other people, so that's probably something to avoid if not in a trusted, closed environment.
But seriously, you're creating this image of the PERFECT YOU and not living up to it, and you know what? No one ever does. But a few suggestions: make your image of who you WANT to be, not the things you want NOT to do. Do you want to try more new foods, do you want to learn to cook more, do you want to learn more about urban farming? Do you want to join a morning photography class on Saturdays? Then do the things you want to do because you want to do them, not because they meet some kind of random external model.
It's simply not the case that you can't make new friends unless you ban Wendy's, or if you don't set your alarm promptly at 6. it just isn't. But as long as you keep packaging everything in your life into some kind of big don't box, you'll never just start doing what you want to do.
I'm kind of surprised with Miss Information's advice to the first LW, too. Even with her insecurities and the snooping, I think it would be hard not to feel insecure and hurt when your boyfriend says the only reason he didn't tell you he did something was because he knew you would get angry that he did it. Especially when he knew ahead of time that you would not appreciate that behavior.
I also think the legitimacy of "snooping" is subjective, since in a relationship, there really shouldn't be anything to hide. You can have your own space, etc. while still keeping each other comfortable enough that there are no secrets the other needs to worry about finding out.
Longest comment section I have ever seen.
The guy is a dog. He wants to maintain a bunch of women old and new. He doesn't have enough guts to be single and he doesn't need to because his partner puts up with it. That kind of narcissism is forever honey. Run now.
Yum. Jarrod Gorbel.
I really don't care and haven't read a word of this, but the guy in the picture is FUCKING HOT.
To Jealous GF: He is probably cheating, female instincts don't lie. Don't smother them and lull yourself into a state of denial. Don't accuse, just walk. Preserve your dignity!
Ah, yes they do. They're just often subject to selective bias and work on a quantity over quality rule. Instinctive impulses pop into a person's head with such frequency that every so often, what they think is going tomatch with reality.
In any case, jealousy and suspicion are symptomatic emotions and unreliable sources of instinctual behaviour. Just cause someone feels like eating doesn'tmean they're hungry.
FoF, in the words of a great wise man, "no matter where you go, there you are." Moving to a new place and looking for a "fresh start" rarely works because all the baggage and bad habits come right along with you.
Sometimes focusing on the list of "thou shalt nots" only makes it harder to change. Maybe working on "positive virtues," finding the things you want to START doing instead of what you feel you need to STOP, would be more satisfying. Sometimes the best way to break a bad habit can be to replace it with a good one.
FoF: The great thing about failing is you finally figure out where your actual strengths are. I've seen people who succeed often run against the wall of not knowing what they want to do because they've never had the wake up moment of a ground splattering failure. Failing is also not fun. I'm not saying it is. I have never enjoyed my own failures, but damn it, did I learn from them. I learned how to be better at relationships, with people, and focused on what I want in my life. Look deep in yourself and find that itch that needs to be scratched and do something about it. Maybe you'll fall on your face, or maybe you'll succeed a little bit, and fail a bit, too.
I love you, Cait. You are 10 kinds of awesome.
Make hot, mad, passionate love to me in public, el profe.
I think for the first LW, the issue may not be whether or not she's being unreasonable, nor that her boyfriend is maybe a liar or a cheater; I think the issue is that being with this guy is making her crazy. And you don't need to be with someone who makes you crazy. I loved someone very much, and he loved me--but we brought out the WORST in each other. It's not like we tried to piss each other off--we just weren't good for each other's mental state. Dump him. It doesn't have to be because he's a pig--he just makes you crazy, and you choose to not be with someone who makes you crazy.
Yo Cait, your great doula friend is a physician assistant, no apostrophe s. :-) #pettydetails
I know I'm repeating... but, yeah, seriously bad advise for the Jealous Girl.
I do agree that snooping through his phone is in bad taste, and probably will only exacerbate the problem of him hiding things from you. But, seriously, he doesn't seem to get the fact that by hiding the fact that he has female friends, he is the one making it into a big deal. If he told you upfront, and then you freaked out, then it is your issue-- but he isn't upfront about it. And lying by omission is still lying. Don't let him make you out into the bad guy on this one. You may be a little paranoid, but he is the one who is feeding into your paranoia with his dishonesty.
to LW1- I *just* got out of a 2 yr relationship that on the surface appeared to be open and honest, but wasn't. He had lots of female friends, and a crazy ex wife; I had lots of male friends and a crazy baby-daddy in another state. We had agreed to keep lines of communication between US open, with full disclosure about discussions we had with people that could cause strife in the relationship. I had no reason to snoop, and in fact, didn't. However, there was a sneaking suspicion I kept trying to quiet that would occasionally explode-- like when he invited his ex-wife to his house while I was out of town visiting my parents. He told me, after the fact, and swore she was only there to get the rest of her things from the house. In the end, he pulled a "I'm going out of town on a holiday weekend because I don't want to be around your family" move where he ostensibly was just going to visit an old female friend from school who lives 7 hours away. 5 days after we split up, the so-called "old friend" was now visiting here and within a month of the split they're talking about moving in together. It sucks you stooped to snooping, but trust your gut. If YOU'VE been above board all along with your friendships and disclosures, and he's ignoring or disregarding your concerns, he's disrespecting you. And using the whole "I don't tell you because you're jealous" is a cop-out to his own self-preservation shrouded under a false act of diplomacy. Do you really want to spend your life questioning his moves and motives? Nope, didn't think so. Now, if you see this pattern emerge in ALL of your monogamous relationships, then I'd pull the neurotic and controlling card. But if this is the only time you've felt insecure enough to write in to an advice column to explain your behavior vis-a-vis his behavior, then it's safe to assume you're not neurotic and just need a man that respects you.
What does this have to do with Jarrod Gorbel?
i am thinking the same damn thing ahahah
jarrod gorbel has distracted me from this whole post. damn.
I don't know who the hell this Jarrod Gorbel is, but he looks just like every other hispter douche out there....like that guy from Dashboard Confessional with Oberst hair.
ahahaha you are mistaken. he is not a douche, and doesn't look like one. but thats my opinion. he is a musician who is quite amazing if you ask me.
Let's see...marginally talented, ridiculously tatted, the girls think he's dreamy....it isn't the Second Coming of Butch Walker, is it? I'm not mistaken about f***-all...you're probably another braindead early-20something who doesn't know enough of anything about anything to know better.
Bad advice to LW1 - she had an instinct that her boyfriend was lying, and she was right. If she had snooped and found nothing, than she would be in the wrong. But, and this is an important "but." she DID find evidence that he was lying. This is not going to stop. He is a liar and will remain so. It's his way of controlling things and most likely he needs a ton of female attention. His behavior is dishonest and uncaring. From one who has been there, trust me and sweetie, GET OUT NOW!
Full disclosure: I have been cheated on, we recovered, and I became very educated on all the issues surrounding infidelity.
LW1 could have been written by just about any person who was cheated on and found out later. Speaking strictly to realities and setting ethics of snooping aside, a partner who lies about spending time with opposite-attraction (girls for straight guys, etc) individuals is a huge red flag. Dishonesty is what makes a betrayal-- not the particular sex act or whatever else, but the dishonesty, which many people find more difficult to overcome than the actual sex. If LW1's partner is repeatedly lying about interactions with other women-- I would advise her to snoop all she wants, simply because there is a decent chance he has cheated on her or will in the future. But this is a huge issue requiring enormous reparative work, and if she isn't seriously attached she should probably leave now.
MissInformation, sorry but lambasting the LW for snooping is a poor response given how typical this situation is in relationships where cheating really has occurred. Snooping is too often a symptom of a much larger problem.
Full disclosure: you haven't really recovered.
Letter 1 could have been written by anyone who's jealous and controlling, regardless of their relationship infidelity issues. Amazing how those statistics things work, isn't it?
There's a different between dishonesty and a lack of full disclosure. The letter is CHOCK-A-BLOCK FULL of red flags about jealousy and control issues, and it sounds like the LW & her boyfriend have very different confrontation styles....as is, she's confrontational and he's an avoider.
You can paint this all you want with your broad strokes and banal generalizations, but trying to fit their reality into your neat little cubbyhole of perceptions just doesn't quite work.
Short, sweet, to the point, FREE-exactly as ifnomraiton should be!
Hmmm, that first letter is the third one in recent times in which a woman is jealous that her boyfriend has female friends. Third one. Cait, it's interesting that you keep picking these letters to respond to. Respectfully, I must once again disagree with your view that the letter writer needs to work on her insecurities, trust issues, self-esteem, etc.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again: Men and women CANNOT be friends. In all cases, one or the other (or both) wants more. They have romantic and/or physical feelings for the other, and they want something to happen. No one has friends of the opposite sex. They have *admirers* of the opposite sex, and they feed off that attention and energy.
All of the boyfriend's friends should have penises. All of the letter writer's friends should have vaginas. It's as simple as that.
nn8ofR Not bad post, but a lot of extra ....
Yeah, it is clear now ... Just can not figure out how often do you update your blog???
Totally agree with you, about a week ago wrote about the same in my blog!!!
Author, keep doing in the same way!!!
Yeah, in my opinion, it is written on every fence...
Sent the first post, but it wasn`t published. I am writing the second. It's me, the African touristtt
Comrade kill yourself.