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December 8, 2011
Please Advise
My boyfriend’s family hates me. Is it worth trying to win them over or is avoidance the best policy?
Each week, the inbox of our venerable advice columnist, Miss Information, is flooded with queries. And although she makes a valiant effort, she cannot answer them all. To deal with the surplus, we've decided to turn to you. So, don your spectacles and help this woman out. You can give her advice in the comments below, or, if you'd like to share what you wrote with your friends, on our Facebook page.
Dear Nerve,
My boyfriend’s family has never seemed to approve of me. There’s a couple of reasons for this: we’re political opposites, and I’m an agnostic Oregonian, which, as super-conservative Southern Baptists, they find just shy of “Practicing Voodoo Priestess.” I work as a bartender and do freelance work instead of having a traditional job, I have tattoos, I was raised by hippies. Really, all you need to know is that they nearly disowned my boyfriend when they found out we’d be “living in sin.”
When we do all get together, I’m cordial to the point of being a Stepford Wife. I’m polite, nonconfrontational, and helpful. That’s not to say I’m fawning or particularly quiet around them (because I will not be cowed into not being myself), but I avoid doing or saying anything that could give them more ammo against me. That said, with the holidays approaching, I’m not sure how much longer I can do this. We’ve been together for five years, and their feelings toward me don’t seem to be thawing any. Should I just excuse myself from his upcoming family gatherings or keep ice-skating uphill?
— On the Outs With the In-Laws
Tags
Monogamy
Commentarium (57 Comments)
Excuse yourself from the gatherings. And where's your boyfriend in all this? He should be standing up for and putting his foot down with his family. If he's no doing that then reevaluate your relationship because it might be time to go.
*you
*not
Your choices --
1. Kill them with kindness, aka turn the other cheek. Y'all may be opposites but you have something in common -- your love for a member of their family. If they can at least show you respect day in & day out, then you have a hope of developing a relationship.
2. BAIL OUT! Our mommas were right when they said "See how his family/her family treat others & each other 'cuz that's what you can expect to get from them." If his family is mean, selfish, abnormal, dysfunctional or just off-the-wall nuts, then you better re-consider your future with him. Life is too short to remain miserable. The best marriage is one where not only are you two happy together but also that you and your kin blend seamlessly with your in-laws.
I could go on but I won't. Suffice to say, I've experienced both. Life has been much much better since 2000.
Based on her letter, I think it's safe to say she's been trying 1 already.
"The best marriage is one where not only are you two happy together but also that you and your kin blend seamlessly with your in-laws"
I hope this is true for you, DJW, 'cause it sounds lovely. In some families all that 'seamless blending' takes effort...it sounds like the LW is putting in that effort but the bf's family is not. It speaks well of the LW and her man that they have been together this long in the face of what sounds pretty dysfunctional. I know a lot of great people who've learned open mindedness from their very close minded families...jes' sayin'...
Obviously your boyfriend doesn't agree with his upbringing or his parents' views, so you need to present a united front to his family: you're here to stay. As someone who was/is in that situation (I'm also a tattooed agnostic Oregonian in a relationship with a guy from a conservative background, and after almost 9 years of marriage his mother is still chilly but civil), my advice is to be polite and don't say/do anything in front of the parents that can be used as ammunition against you later. If my in-laws say anything negative about me we leave and don't come back until we're invited (which has been years at a time). It's tough being in a relationship with someone whose parents don't like you, but being united is the best strategy.
I agree with Betty. If they're simply cold, just hold your breath for 2 days. However, if they do become inappropriate, your boyfriend should have your side and you guys should bail until further notice. I think even Prudie would agree!
If your boyfriend is dickless through all of this you may need to move on. If he's properly supportive and let his family know that you're not going anywhere then maybe it might be good if you both skip a few of his familys gatherings just to drive the point.
My thoughts exactly.
This is a bit involved, but bear with me.
I'm a more-liberal-than-thou southerner living in sf who recognizes the value of being out and proud. But I wonder what you mean by saying that you're not fawning or willing to hide who you are. I mean, it's one thing to be out and proud, and quite another to rub it in people's faces... and that's a distinction that often matters to people in the south, and that best-coasters are, ah, less sensitive to. So... do you have to "speak up" for what you believe in? The answer is, simply, no. You need to leave well enough alone, and turn that shit into fictional gold about how fucked up other people's families are.
Of course, if they're actually emotionally abusive, you need to get the fuck out of there, and dump any boyfriend who won't stand up for you - Betty, above, has definitely got that right. If it were me, I'd also find a way to get some booze down their withered gullets on the way out, but that's because I've got the true religion. And am drunk.
Last thing: they sound like they think of themselves as having "strong moral values." I know this is bullshit, and you know this is bullshit. But, if you want some warmth from them, find out if there's anything that both you and they approve of - volunteering in a homeless shelter on christmas eve, or whatever thing of actual moral value happens to be a part of christianity they've focused on - and work that shit. The strange thing about southern politeness is that it is actually not all about keeping up appearances. It's about respect. So when you're trying to do the stepford wife thing, they may feel *your* disrespect even more strongly the whole time. If you actually want to have a better relationship with them, stop thinking about them as conservative fucktards, and start thinking about them as extremely misled sinners who you somehow have to find common ground with. I'm not saying you have to do that - they're *your* boyfriend's family, not mine - but that if you want to have a better relationship, that seems like the right row to hoe.
!!! Agreed. I grew up in a southern town dating baptist boys whose families didn't approve of me. (Short hair?! are you sure she's not a lesbian?) The best thing to do is avoid confrontation and avoid any subjects of debates. If someone says something that you disagree in, chill the fuck out and let it slide. If they actually ask you what you think about something, politely state your opinion and try to change the subject. Be sweet. Bring a pie.
Good advice from both posters above, especially this:
"If someone says something that you disagree in, chill the fuck out and let it slide. If they actually ask you what you think about something, politely state your opinion and try to change the subject."
So many people make the mistake of thinking they have to constantly assert their opinions, and can't resist the bait of self-righteously reacting to someone else's perceived racism, or sexism, or classism, or whatever. But being a boor never converted anyone, it just reinforces them in their beliefs that leftists are sanctimonious, spoiled brats who have never worked an honest day in their lives and don't know how to show proper respect.
Having said that, I think it's optimistic to think that volunteering in a homeless shelter will win over today's conservative evangelicals. Too many of them aren't too attached to the charitable aspects of Christianity, and indeed see charity as a kind of vice. They're more interested in sin and punishment, and the Calvinist view that if your life is shitty, it's because you're not one of God's elect.
You had me until the 3rd paragraph.
People like that are emotional bullies. Best thing for bullies is to stand your ground, be who you are and they can accept you or not. I really didn't care what they thought about me and made sure they knew it. My father in law respected me eventually (possibly even liked me by the end). Oh yeah and any time it gets nasty leave immediately and don't come back for awhile.
be upfront with them. my advice is to tell them 1. how important your boyfriend is to you, and 2. how important it is to him that you get along with his family. tell them you've noticed the distance in your relationship and you want to change it. no one can deny someone who approaches them honestly and sincerely.
Great advice.
And if their reply is, "All you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your savior and repent for your sins and the evil you have wrought..."?
"no one can deny someone who approaches them honestly and sincerely."
Oh, god... the world would be a much nicer place if this was true.
Being raised by hippies is bad but you can't change that so focus on the things you can change. Reevaluate your political views, get a decent job, look into tattoo removal, and stop living in sin.
Troll.
I think your sarcasm detector is broken
Yeah, I found this comment quite funny.
i find it unnecessary to attend these family gatherings every time unless it's a big deal. so i'd suggest just avoid them. my cousin married someone his family did not approve of (sigh, politic was one of the reasons) and they moved out of state (of course, to where his wife's family lives) and only go home visit maybe twice a year. i think if you are in a solid relationship, the family's objection isn't really much of an issue, unless you see them everyday.
There's pertinent information missing here, specifically how your fella reacts to all of this. Does he stick up for you? Does he meekly keep his head down? I assume he's with you because he wants to get away from people who share his parent's outlook, but if his family makes spending holidays with them a trial, you have good reason to bow out. Yeah, kill 'em with kindness and yeah, you're dating him and not his parents, but if you made a good faith effort to be nice to them and they're still stonewalling you, you have no reason to keep playing their reindeer games.
I agree with the "don't play stupid games" thing. If you're being really friendly and they're still behaving like this, whatever; they've just waived their right to that level of consideration.
People often dish out shit because they feel confident that you'll take out, and the people who dish out the most tend to be exactly the kind who can't take it themselves. They don't have infinite leverage over you; as long as you're acting within the bounds of reason in your response (don't yell, calmly explain your position etc), your partner probably will keep their head on about exactly who is being unfair or purposely alienating.
Living in the South myself, there are a lot of people here for who "normalcy" is rigidly followed more so they can look down on others rather than because they actually believe in any of it. They do it consciously and deliberately so they can be steps above others on the social hierarchy. It's got nothing to do with 'fairness' or what they really believe. Feel no obligation to play along with that story.
Talk to your bf and see if maybe both of you can skip one or two holiday gatherings this year. Maybe he can invite his parents out to see you guys. They might be more civil if they are on your turf. But if he wants to go, you'll have to go with him and just suck it up. Present a united front. If he goes without you, they'll think they've won. Continue to be super nice. Their attitude will be a poor reflection on them, not you. Your bf needs to start to back you up a little more. He needs to teach his family that when they are crappy to you, they don't get the pleasure of his company.
Great advice. I agree completely.
what CFG said. Your turf will make you more comfortable and them less cold.
Five years? Shouldn't someone ask someone else to marry at this point? Do you know the direction of where your relationship is going?
The question you have to ask yourself and your BF is this- "Are we worth your family treating me like crap? Can we handle this for the rest of our lives? Really? If they don't stop, do I have to keep going through this?"
Tough but real questions
"Shouldn't someone ask someone else to marry at this point?"
Um. Not everyone wants to get married, Bob.
I get the sense that the in-laws are merely being chilly, not actively hostile ("they seem to disapprove of me...." "their feelings don't seem to be thawing"), so the answers about the boyfriend needing to grow a pair seem to miss the point. One can (and should) stand up and insist one's family stop treating one's girlfriend like crap, if that's what they're doing, but there's no way on earth to command someone to be warm and fuzzy towards someone whom they'd rather treat with detached reserve. Nor does it seem worthwhile to leave an otherwise fine relationship (if such it is) over a bunch of evangelicals expressing their disapproval through a refusal to "thaw."
I've been on the other side of this--my ultra-conservative evangelical parents were polite but downright unfriendly to my non-evangelical boyfriend for several years (and he was merely a lapsed-Catholic, non-tattooed computer programmer, with whom I was not even living in sin). There's only one thing that works, unfortunately, and that's a wedding. The minute we were married, they were no longer Christian-duty-bound to show us how much they disapproved--or else they realized that they might as well give up--or else they stopped worrying that he was planning to "ruin" me and abandon me--they never did explain their thinking, if there was indeed any thinking involved. Of course, by then he wasn't feeling too warm and fuzzy towards them, and years later they apologized to me for having been cold to him ....and proceeded to make amends by being really nice to the man I divorced him for...but that's another story.
So, I think the bottom line is that if you want to change their attitude, you're going to have to marry him. And marriage is not something I would do (again) to please someone else. I say go with the plan of excusing yourself from future family gatherings, as long as he's okay with it, until you have a ring on your finger. And if you never plan to have said ring, well, excuse yourself permanently. No great loss to you.
I think you need to make a choice. You can either stick with it or end the relationship. It sort of depends on how much this guy means to you. Also, I'd suggest talking with the guy about your worries (just because communication in relationships is good). I think you've been taking the right path all along, being sweet and polite. Your situation is very common, and unfortunately, doesn't typically work out. It is a shame that his parents will prevent you from having fun with/being content with, dating him. If you can't take it anymore, break up with him. I advise you to hold in there. Hopefully sometime in the future you will be able to spend less time at family gatherings (move somewhere further away).
Your first mistake was letting them know you weren't christian and you had opposite views than them. Never discuss those kinds of things with your others parents!! It just causes tension. My boyfriend and I live in Alabama and neither one of us are religious. He just never mentioned to his family that im not christian and they just assumed I was. Same for him. it's not worth the struggle.
All you can do is continue to be nice and do not talk about religion, politics, or refuse bow your head during prayers. As long as your boyfriend is ok with it I wouldn't worry too much. They may never be super warm to you but they will eventually accept you.
I'm going to assume that since it is not mentioned as being problematic, that Boyfriend's behavior through this has been supportive and understanding enough to be a non issue.
As a Northwestern kid of Southerners, I totally feel you on this. Interpersonal conflict with Southerners is way harder to adapt to than, say, with Northeasterners. People from the Northeast who have never been to the South accuse Northwesterners of being too nice. This is, of course, wrong - we are simply conflict averse. Southerners are Nice, but in no way see that as being mutually exclusive with interpersonal conflict. This is a culture where people earnestly say 'oh, bless (his/her) heart,' to mean (HE/SHE) IS SUCH A FUCKING IDIOT.
I think part of the 'dont give them any ammunition' impulse should rather be a slightly heightened awareness of social niceties. Stepford-wife levels might actually be over-doing it, but deference to elder generations is a very serious thing. There's also a certain way that allowances are made for behavior that is superficially polite that doesnt make sense to northwestern sensibilities. Its not that we're more genuine, its just that we've substituted pretending not to have conflict at all, so when there's obvious conflict but nothing 'being done' about it, its all confusing.
So I am going to come back to the boyfriend, after all. He's the fulcrum in this interaction. He's given his folks enough of the finger to be with you for 5 years that they should have gotten the picture by now. I think you could reasonably ask him to either intervene actively - tell his parents to chill the fuck out - or passively - find some excuse to curtail the duration of the visits you two make. Even if it doesn't alter their behavior at all, any manner of action on the part of a sig other to smooth things with their parents always makes one feel appreciated.
They didn't disown your boyfriend so they obviously want to try to be a part of his life, despite his sinful behaviour. Try thawing out yourself first...it would be hard to relate to a Stepford wife, even as a Southern Baptist. And learn to accept that they may never accept you - quite frankly, given their religious delusions, that seems likely.
Play it off. Act like a good sport, admit you know they couldn't care less for you, and tell them you recognize that there's little you or the boyfriend can do about it. But point out to them that you and they love the same person, and so that's something they are going to have to get used to as well. Leave it at that. You've said your piece about the things that really matter in this sociological standoff (political stances are unimportant) and they either are bright enough to understand what you said, or they are dumb as stumpwater. If they do prove to be dumb as stumpwater and refuse to accept that you are part of the life of someone they love, stop going.
A huge part of this (especially as it has been five years) lands in your milquetoast boyfriends lap. The idea that he has allowed family to treat the woman he loves for this long says a lot about your relationship. You may want to look into that as well.
It's better to make them admit you. If so, your bf won't worry between you and his family. Do U think so?
Wanna find a casual encounter, ___CasualLoving dot com__ is a good place. Best wishes.
What is wrong with the picture at the top:
1. Bottle of wine at a Southern Baptist meal. (I assume that everyone knows what "Southern Baptist" does not simply mean "a Baptist who is from the south.")
2. Decent Southerners would place fork and knife across the top of the plate at the end of the meal.
Never ever for any reason should you change who you are to please people who don't like you for whatever reason. It has never worked and never will, even trying you will hate them and maybe yourself for it.
"Nonconfrontational" is good on political issues, but not so good on the personal issue of how they treat you -- if they've been rude to you for five years running without any excuse beyond their culture shock, then y'all got personal issues. Have you tried confronting them about that? Saying, "Look, the way you treat me is really rude, and even if you don't like me, I want us to all treat each other with respect because we're probably going to be family, and it'll make everything a lot more pleasant." You don't have to win their blessing, but adults should be able to be civil to people even when they don't approve of each others' lifestyles.
Not calling them on their BS doesn't make it your fault -- it's still their BS -- but if you've gone five years without trying to hash things out, you might be missing an opportunity to make things better.
First of all, ice-skating uphill is a great hamstring exercise. And don’t knock it until you’ve skated down an Appalachian Valley in dead-wrenched fear, just wishing for a hill to save your ass. I mean that. I mean it like I mean you need to start Tebowing two months before each visit, getting swoll up in the legs so you can cut lines across their Bible-stemmed sermons. For real. Look in the mirror and tell yourself, “I am not a Salmon to their Bonneville Dam ladder!” Then do it, be that Portland Princess I know you are. You environmentally conscious, fixed gear-pedaling, East Burn graphic designer. The only thing Voodoo about you is the bacon maple bar in your stomach.
On the real, his parent’s values aren’t changing anytime soon. So like Kanye says, “you can leave or live with it.” (He was referencing cheating on his girlfriend though). I think leaving is too easy, it’s what they want: a dinner with their son where they can drop passive aggressive lines about finding a classier, more traditional Baptist woman. Nothing will change. You’ll just be sitting at home, putting birds on everything.
So go, represent yourself. You don’t have to ice-skate up hill either. Just be there, be yourself, or the polite you that goes to dinners where not everyone agrees on the same issues. Pick your battles. Their view on abortion probably won’t change. Their view on liberal, tattooed bartenders? Maybe it can be swayed. The best thing you can do is give them an accurate illustration of their social and political adversary - someone who at the end of the day is a good person, and someone their son cares for. Despite the inevitable hell you are destined for. Shun the non-believer.
I have been with my partner for 22 years. Her parents have finally warmed to me, but it took nearly a decade for that to happen. Her extended family of brothers (and respective spouses) are, in a word, despicable. They are self-involved, xenophobic snobs who to this day expect some grand gesture from me before they'll even consider approving of me. Here's a hint: this is a family of Mormons, and Mormons are highly suspicious of outsiders who disagree with their beliefs. The family dynamic is as weird as you can imagine and weirder than I can describe. After all this time, I've learned to just stay away. If there's a big family function, my partner goes. I stay home. I tried early on to ingratiate myself and I was a fool to try. It has been much better for my peace of mind to have no relationship with them at all. Sometimes peace is best achieved by leaving certain people alone. Life is too precious to waste on people who don't love you. The longer I'm alive, the more convinced of the truth of that statement. Thankfully, my love is supportive and understanding about it.
I should also add that I've had to cast off any notions of "family" with regard to these folks. I'm simply not interested anymore. I don't waste time on civility because I just have no contact with them unless absolutely necessary. "Family ties" can be very difficult to forge and sometimes it's just not worth the bother.
Uh, not all Oregonians are the antithesis of Southern Babtists. Quite the opposite, actually, if you venture anywhere outside of a major city. I'm wondering if the letter writer is really "from" Oregon at all.
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