Savage Love

My girlfriend stopped being sexual until we got married. But now we’re married, and now she hasn’t started again.


By Dan Savage

I am a straight twenty-four-year-old female who has known my fiancé since freshman year of college. He has a fetish where he likes to watch women use the bathroom. I knew this, having seen some of his porn early on, and I accepted it. We all have kinks. But while peeing in front of someone isn’t that big of a deal, shitting in front of someone is hard.

So we had a lovely night going, when I had to poop. We went into the bathroom together. He got very horny, but I couldn’t go. I said I was sorry, maybe I’ll be more relaxed later, and he goes, “Well, let’s fuck in here in case you have to go.” He wanted to do it sitting on the toilet with me on top. No go. Too hard, so we went in my room and had amazing sex and smoked a joint. I wanted to have sex again, but he wanted to wait to see if I could go. He said, “Drink some coffee! Smoke a cigarette!” I love him and want to be GGG, but the pressure turned me off. (1) Is this my fault for bringing it up? (2) Was his pressuring me wrong? (3) How should I approach this situation without sounding like a bitch?

— Pressured Over Observable Performance

1. You didn’t do anything wrong when you brought it up, POOP, and he didn’t do anything wrong when he got excited about the possibility of having his fantasy realized.

2. Yes. However excited your fiancé was about finally realizing his watch-my-girl-take-a-shit fantasy, he shouldn’t have pressured you to perform once it became clear that it wasn’t gonna happen. (And he shouldn’t encourage you to smoke cigarettes; those things will kill you.) Shitting in front of someone — and here’s hoping that’s as far as his interest in poop goes — isn’t easy, POOP, and badgering you won’t help. Your fiancé, if he knows what’s good for him, will hang back, let you set the pace, and thank his lucky fucking stars that he found someone who is willing to even try and will get there eventually.

3. “I know you’re excited, honey, and it excites me to see you so excited. But dial it back a bit, okay? Next time I feel like I can give it a try, I will definitely let you know. But all of this pressure is making me feel constipated. And you don’t want that, right?”

 

I’m an eighteen-year-old male. After three years of silence, my ex-girlfriend texted me out of the blue. She was my first love, and part of my heart still aches for her. I feel like the smart thing to do is to stop talking to her right now, but my heart says if I keep at it, I might be able to win her back. Most of her messages sound flirtatious, but it could just be me being optimistic. She even said, “I don’t think of you as more than a friend. But I would be open to a relationship if I started having feelings for you again.” Is this a lost cause? Or do I need to give it more time and see how it develops?

— Love And Memories Enflamed

Forgive me, LAME, for what I’m about to type.

You’re being used. Your ex-girlfriend sent that out-of-the-blue text because she wanted to feel wanted. Maybe she got dumped recently, or maybe she’s in the midst of a dry spell, or maybe she’s just selfish and cruel. But all she’s after here — most likely — are the ego boosts your texts provide. And to keep those boosts coming, LAME, she’s dangling a little false hope in front of you: she told you the truth so she wouldn’t have to admit to herself that she’s a manipulative liar (she only thinks of you as a friend) and then tacked on some meaningless, impossible-to-disprove crap (a relationship might be possible if she starts to have feelings for you again) to keep you textin’.

You dated her three years ago… when you were fifteen. You’re not in love with her, LAME, you’re in love with the way she made you feel. There are other girls out there who can make you feel that way. Go find one.

 

I’m a thirty-five-year-old GGG married male with a thirty-three-year-old not-so-GGG wife. We’ve been together seventeen years and married four months. She was a virgin when we met and she’s never been too sexual a person. I am a very sexual person, but she kept me satisfied with oral, dress-up, sex in different places — things like that. Things really started to fall off sexually around our tenth year together. When I mentioned it, she said that she felt I was never going to marry her, so why should she give me 100 percent? I enjoy oral and watching women masturbate, and she wouldn’t do either and blamed it on the marriage thing. Five years later, I gave her the big wedding she wanted. I actually enjoy being married. Now, here’s my dilemma: she won’t do anything besides traditional sex — and only when she’s awake enough to actually have sex, and I always have to initiate. When I mention things like oral or toys or masturbation, she says she feels uncomfortable doing things like that. If she would have told me this before, my decision to get married might have been different. I don’t want her to do anything that makes her feel uncomfortable or degraded. But in my opinion, what I’m asking for is not “kinky,” certainly when compared to some of the things I could be into.

We’ve had this discussion consistently throughout our short marriage, with no sign of her even trying. Am I doomed to a bad marriage, or is there something I can do? Because talking isn’t working. I feel she lied to me to get me to marry her, and now I don’t know what to do. Any advice is appreciated.

— Lots Of Sexual Tension

All your options are bad, LOST.

Stay married, stay faithful, and stew in your own frustration and resentment until you die; stay married, cheat with cause, and hope you don’t get caught; inform your spouse that you’re not going to ask her to do things she’s not comfortable with but you’re also not going to ask for her permission to do those things with other women, and be cast as the villain when she files for divorce; or initiate the divorce yourself, find a new partner, and make sure your new partner both enjoys sex and enjoys the kinds of sex you do before you marry her. (Hint: if she likes sex, and likes the stuff you like, she’ll want to do that stuff whether you’re married to her or not.)

Sorry, LOST, but that’s all I got.

 

HEY, EVERYBODY: you know how Mormons “baptize” dead people who weren’t Mormons — including Holocaust victims — because Mormons believe they have a right to choose Mormonism for the deceased? And you know how the Mormon Church says that being gay is a choice? The same church that doesn’t think you should have a choice about being posthumously baptized? Well, now you can choose homosexuality for dead Mormons! Just go to www.AllDeadMormonsAreNowGay.com, enter the name of a deceased Mormon or ask the site to find a dead Mormon for you, and — presto! — that dead Mormon gets to have a gay afterlife!

HEY, CANADIAN READERS: I’m following @vikileaks30 on Twitter — and you should, too. Really entertaining stuff!

Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

@fakedansavage on Twitter

Commentarium (20 Comments)

Feb 22 12 - 2:07am
Heather

LOST, what you are asking for sounds normal, so I suspect this may be a case of your wife having issues. Not issues as in, oh isn't she a lame arse bitch, but she may have issues, whether they be religious or otherwise. For example, some women don't feel comfortable having men go down on them because they're secretly ashamed of their cunt. It may be that your wife doesn't actually enjoy all those things because she feels cheap and objectified, or something like that. What I would suggest is finding out why she's like this, and changing it. This is the most difficult thing to do. If she is open minded or literary I would suggest talking to her about it and reasoning her out of it. If she is literary get books that describe how good these things how and how valued she is. If you can't find any of the other, encourage her to sexually objectify men. Get pictures of hot men (usually in gay men's magazines) in beautiful photo shoots for her to look at. (Just google beautiful naked men, or beautiful men or something like that.) Encourage her to develop a certain "type" of man she appreciates. Get her to know there's nothing wrong with a fantasy. And then maybe she'll open up about her fantasies and let herself become part of yours.

Feb 22 12 - 3:02pm
Kenni

It says that she gave him oral before the 10 year point which makes me think she was only doing it to get a ring and when she didn't get one she stopped and never started again. She seems to be manipulative based on the letter.

Feb 22 12 - 2:10am
Heather

However, if the reasons behind it are serious, like past abuse or molestation, I'd recommend therapy. If they're religious, I'd recommend getting a social circle of great non religious people and also therapy. Religion is to lots of people what alcohol also is - a bandaid.

Feb 22 12 - 2:43am
RE: LOST

"I don’t want her to do anything that makes her feel uncomfortable or degraded. But in my opinion, what I’m asking for is not 'kinky,' certainly when compared to some of the things I could be into."

Operative word: "But." So what you're really saying is, you actually do want her to continue doing things that she tells you make her feel uncomfortable and degraded because you believe that your kink threshold lets you decide what hers should be too.

My opinion: You deserve your misery. You gave a woman a ring in exchange for sex, without ever considering that she only ever gave you sex in hope of getting a ring. Consider this doomed-from-the-start marriage a lesson learned. Get divorced; have the decency to let her initiate it. You're both still young and have plenty of time to find and take the plunge with partners you're actually sexually compatible with.

Or, stay married, remove your head from your ass, and try considering that maybe the problem isn't that your wife hasn't ever been all that interested in sex, but that she's never been all that interested in sex WITH YOU. Seriously.

Feb 22 12 - 5:10am
Yeah

Seriously, why marry someone solely on the basis of them fulfilling your sexual desires? That's just all kinds of wrong.

Feb 22 12 - 6:26am
Jess

Gosh, yeah, because it's so silly to marry someone you love in the hopes of having your sexual desires fulfilled--sexual desires that HAD been filled by that person for ten years--in comparison to dangling the promise of sex in order to get a ring and marriage certificate.

If he deserves his misery because he married her hoping she would live up to her promises to go back to 100% sexual with him, she deserves twice that for telling him he would get what he wanted if she got what she wanted. People make deals all the time; she's the fink who didn't live up to her end of the bargain. I wouldn't bother being "decent" enough to let her initiate the divorce. If I was in his position, I'd be more than happy to put "lied about interest in sex" on the damn divorce papers that I submitted.

Holy crap, but I hate it that people act like "wanting to get married" is so much more noble than "wants to have my partner fulfil my sexual needs". Unless the world is populated by asexuals, I genuinely do not understand why sexual frustration wrought by an unwilling, dishonest partner garners so little sympathy.

Feb 22 12 - 1:06pm
"oh snap"revival

+1 : If I was in his position, I'd be more than happy to put "lied about interest in sex" on the damn divorce papers that I submitted.

Feb 22 12 - 10:28am
AlexT

LW2: 17 years together, she was a virgin when you two met, and she's "never been too sexual a person"? And the sex "dropped off" after 10 years? But LW2 expects her to be a sex kitten NOW, after he "gave her the wedding she wanted"? Weddings are nice, but they're not that nice. And they only happen once.

Could either of these two sound any more completely fucking bored and sick of each other? She acts like she's fucking him because she has to, and he acts like he married her because he "had to." It sounds like a rampant lack of enthusiasm being displayed on both their parts. And a lack of enthusiasm is the biggest boner-killer of all.

And there's another thing. Although I think it's bullshit that LW2's wife fed him a bunch of lines (which LW2 competely and wilfully deluded himself into believing), I don't give LW2 a pass at all. Dude, she was a virgin when you met, and you had 17 years together to figure it out. What exactly have you learned about HER to get her motor running? Your entire letter is how she kept *you* satisfied, and exactly none of it is how you kept or keep *her* satisfied sexually. Just saying, it's a glaring omission. GLARING.

I think that this couple should cut bait and go out there and live life with new people. Both of them. That way, each of them will find out that it's not just the other person's issues that created this ultimately incompatible relationship.

Feb 22 12 - 8:10pm
S

Yup. How can someone write a letter like this without reading it back to themselves and thinking 'oh yeah, actually, fuck Dan's advice, we're doomed'?

Feb 23 12 - 3:30am
Another One

Totally agree with you AlexT. My reaction too, whilst reading this. She satisfied me with x, y, z...

If I felt that I was someone's sex toy, I probably wouldn't be too interested in initiating sex either.

You want lots of action in bed (and elsewhere)? Give her lots of orgasms. You want her to use toys, and other 'kinky' stuff? Make her feel comfortable and safe. Nagging her probably won't get you what you want.

Feb 22 12 - 1:15pm
Gay Mormons

My Gay Mormon was Roger Cox. Schwing!

Feb 22 12 - 1:57pm
jackoff

sucker

Feb 22 12 - 2:14pm
Annonymous

To LOST - Get out. Get out now. You're 35 - it's not too late. You don't have kids, so GTFO of that horrible marriage, and find someone who is sexually compatible with you. Otherwise, you will be miserable.

Feb 22 12 - 9:41pm
Hooray!

I converted Carol Palin! I wonder if she's any relation to Sarah, et al.?

Feb 23 12 - 2:14am
J.M.

LOST, I think it is possible that your wife has some serious self-esteem issues. If she says she feels uncomfortable doing certain things, it might be because she is uncomfortable with her body now that she is older. Maybe she doesn't feel that you are still attracted to her and that you truly value her as a person (although based on the tone of your letter, maybe you don't...)
I would try to talk to her about why certain things are uncomfortable for her now when they weren't before. Find out what has changed about your sexual relationship with each other and go from there. Women withhold sex for all kinds of crazy reasons! (And this is coming from a woman!)

Feb 23 12 - 8:30am
H.G.

I converted so many mormons! Yay me!

Feb 23 12 - 8:27pm
Eric

I'm not Mormon or gay but I know people who are. That site goes too far. Where is the virtue in disrespecting the names of people you don't even know?

Feb 24 12 - 12:55pm
Philip

Save what little is left of your dignity. She hurt you once, that is a shame on her. You let her do it a second time, hell- you must enjoy being dumped! It's your fault the second time.

Feb 25 12 - 4:57pm
Christine

Joshua Adams is now a dead gay Mormon. I had too much fun doing that... too much.

And thanks Dan for promoting vikileaks... please please God help us with Stephen Harper.

Feb 27 12 - 9:08am
Former Mormon

There are quite a few things that I dislike about the Mormon religion, which is why I left. However, I also dislike when someone talks about Mormonism and spread untruths (not a lie, but a lack of knowledge). Having personally done "baptism for the dead" when I was younger, I will tell you what it is: it is being baptized, by proxy, so that *IF* someone in the afterlife so chooses, they can accept it. It's the idea that you don't have to have been born in the right place in the right time in order to be "saved". Mormons believe they have the right to OFFER Mormonism to the deceased. Compare this to another mainstream religion who says that if you don't happen to choose the "true" religion in the cosmic blink of an eye that is our life, you will burn in hell for the eternity. Even if someone doesn't choose Mormonism, they will still have a quiet, peaceful afterlife. That's one of the ideas that I DO like. I don't believe it, but it's still a nice thought.

That being said, I hate the official stance on homosexuality. Bust most Mormons I know, couldn't care less. Just like many religions whose fundamental approach might be ignorant and harsh, the individuals should be judged as just that - individuals.