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February 16, 2011
Savage Love
I love my spouse, but I'm bored of her. Am I allowed to cheat?
By Dan Savage
I am a straight man. From high school through college and after, I loved me some women. Then I met my present girl ten years ago. I fell head over heels for her. I still love her. But, little by little, she has become boring to me. Our sex life has cooled. Days run together with mundane activities like watching TV, going to the store, and hanging out with our kids.
We own a house, we're financially stable, we look very traditional. But I am far from conservative. I love nightlife, crazy friends, and good drink. She was aware of this when we met because we ran in the same circles. My boredom is compounded by a craving for sex with other women. It doesn't matter who — the girl at the coffee shop, the checker at Whole Foods, every chick at the gym — I'm up to my eyeballs in covet.
I want out. I want to be a father to my kids and take care of my wife financially. But I want out. I am a few years from forty. What is the best course of action?
— Too Young To Flail
One day, I'm gonna throw my hands in the air and declare that, from that blessed day forward, I shall no longer tinker with the machinery of monogamy. That day hasn't arrived, as I still have mortgage payments to make and opposite marriages to save — so here's a little tinkle for you:
You say you want out, TYTF, but are you sure about that? In her book I Don't: A Contrarian History of Marriage, Susan Squire asks: "Why does society consider it more moral for you to break up a marriage, go through a divorce, disrupt your children's lives maybe forever, just to be able to fuck someone with whom the fucking is going to get just as boring as it was with the first person before long?" (Emphasis added.)
Writing about Representative Christopher "Craigslist Congressman" Lee last week on Balloon Juice — a blog I read daily — BJ contributor "Mastermix" said: "If we want to do something about the high divorce rate, we might want to get real [about] the role of a discreet, mutually-agreed-upon affair as a safety valve."
In other words, TYTF, destroy the only home your kids have known and put yourself and the wife through the hell of divorce, and here's what happens next: you dog around for a few years and before long you shack up with a new woman — a woman who might want or already has a kid or two of her own — and a few years after that, you're trapped in another monogamous relationship that bores you, and a few years after that, you're writing to ask if you should put your second wife and your new kids through the pain of a divorce all so you can make an embarrassing pass at a barista who has zero interest in fucking you.
Instead of putting your current family — and your hypothetical second family and that poor barista — through that, TYTF, why not risk leveling with the wife you've got now? Your marriage is already on the ropes, TYTF, so you don't have a lot to lose. Ask to have a "safety valve" installed on your marriage in the form of permission to have a discreet, mutually-agreed-upon affair, should the right opportunity/barista present itself/herself. It may not be a pleasant thing for your wife to hear, but "I'm leaving you to go fuck a barista to be named later" won't be music to her ears, either.
She may surprise you, TYTF. It's entirely possible — I hope you're sitting down for this — that you bore her just as much as she bores you. If she's itching for a few adventures of her own, social and sexual, then spend whatever money you were planning to spend on lawyers and counseling for your kids on flying grandparents in to look after the kids while you two head out for a weekend away.
But if all she wants is to stay at home in front of the TV with the kids, tell her that to preserve your sanity and, paradoxically, your marriage, you're going to go out and have some adventures on your own.
If she leaves you over it, TYTF, then you got what you wanted: out.
I'm a thirty-one-year-old lesbian. My girlfriend is in her thirties, but save for a few one-night stands, she has never been with a woman before. I've never had better sex than the sex I'm having with her. When I try to talk to her about this, she gets anxious and makes self-deprecatory comments. I want to be with her for the long haul — our dreams fit together — I just need to figure out how to communicate with her about how great our sex is. Got any advice?
— Communication Breakdown
Yeah, CB, I've got some advice for you: shut the fuck up.
I had this awesome new boyfriend once, and the sex was so freaking great that I felt compelled to communicate with him about how great it was. "This is so great," I would tell him. "Let's try to figure out where all this greatness is coming from!" But he didn't enjoy talking about sex — particularly while we were having sex — and he got so annoyed with my attempts to figure out where all this greatness was coming from that he eventually asked/advised/ordered me to shut the fuck up.
Keep fucking the girlfriend's fucking brains right fucking out, CB, but shut the fuck up. Odds are that she'll learn to relax and open up about sex, like my boyfriend did. But in the meantime, CB, try to resist the urge to lesbian this thing into the ground by communicating it to death.
For several months now, I've had a growing attraction to one of my good male friends. I am an open bisexual male, and my friend is "straight." We've had relations — me blowing him, him jerking me — but he's adamant that he is not attracted to males at all. He nevertheless sleeps with me in my bed when he spends the night.
The plot thickens: a couple days ago, my "straight" crush ordered an eight-inch dildo, molded from a real dick, complete with balls! He got it to use on himself! He says because there's not going to be another male present when he uses it, and thus no romance, the act will be "straight." I define being sexual as enjoying not only the sexual interactions possible between preferred genders, but also the emotional satisfaction, or romance. Does he have a point?
— Absolutely Hate Acronyms
Wasn't there "another male present" when you were giving him blowjobs, AHA, and he was jerking you?
Maybe if your "straight" friend wasn't accepting blowjobs from another man and swore on a stack of vintage Playboys that he would be fantasizing about a lady-parts-having woman-person pegging him when he jams that dildo up his ass, then maybe — maybe — he could be believed when he claims to be a straight dude into anal penetration. But a guy who fails to mention a burning desire for pussy to shore up his straight cred — particularly in conversation with a dude who blows him — and instead falls back on a lame "no homo" rationalization ("Hey, it's not like the dildo brought me flowers or anything gay like that!") is a lot of things, but straight ain't one of 'em.
If your straight friend manages to fuck some sense into himself on that dildo, AHA, you might want to take a turn on it yourself.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
Commentarium (42 Comments)
"lesbian" is officially a verb.
Also, let the guy be primarily "straight" if that's the label he wants to use/hide behind. Alternative labels come with a lot of political baggage he's probably not interested in.
I'm intrigued by a new sexuality distinction that describes people who like same-sex sex but not same-sex romance. I realize none of this is particularly neutral and heteronormativity is likely a heavy influence on how this guy thinks of same-sex partners, but instead of speculating on what we think people actually are based on their behaviour, I'm more interested in letting people self-identify based on available values at the present moment, because just because he enjoys some fooling around with men, doesn't mean he wants the full shebang.
Wouldn't that be the whole "hebang"? [Additional variations are left as an exercise for the reader.]
I've always wondered what sexual orientation is based on. Physical attraction or emotional attraction? Or is it the same for most people?
For the sake of acceptance by heteros it's always been both but especially romantic love, because that's a little purer than deviant lusts. I don't think you have to love both to like one over the other though.
It's really hard to say. I'm female, and I consider myself straight, but I find women's bodies to be a thing of wonder. I love breasts, and I enjoy lesbian porn. I still call myself straight because at the end of the day, I want a man with a penis because I like to be fucked by a guy (though I've never fucked a girl...).
Some people might define themselves differently, and that's totally okay. Call yourself whatever you want, but be who you are.
I'm a straight female and do not find women's bodies to be a thing of wonder. I don't like lesbian port--or should say that I don't dislike it, but it's doesn't make me hot. I like women as friends and sometimes am jealous of very attractive women because I would like to look like them, but the thought of naked women, fucking women, etc...doesn't turn me on. If I'm emotionally attracted to a woman, I want to be her friend. Even if I loved a woman emotionally and found her objectively attractive, I would not...or have never been...attracted to her sexually.
That's porn. Not port. Lesbian port. Might be good. :)
She's got a girl in every lesbian port....
I'm a bi female. For me it's both. I get turned on by both sexes as I get to know them and I fantasize about either sex. It doesn't matter what kind of container they come in, I don't make a distinction ... it's kinda like one big androgynous blur for me.
AHA should introduce his "straight" friend to tytf...think about it: excitement, adventure, and no threat to the wife...just hanging out with a guy friend.
Oh, and CB and her lover could watch, and talk about what makes the sex between the men so hot. that would provide insight. then, they could invite TYTF's wife over, and she could enjoy herself, too! think what a great world it would be if people just told the truth!
I think Dan's advice to the bored guy who wants to leave his wife was a little extreme. There seems to be a lot of space between (apparently) boring monogamous sex and fucking someone of the side. TYTF might first have an honest discussion with his wife about the fact that he is bored. Maybe she's bored too. Maybe spicing up their monogamous sex life might help TYTF not be so bored. If not, maybe his wife would be open to swinging...or something along those lines. I think that just jumping in with, "Hey, honey. I want to fuck other people or I'm leaving you," isn't the best way to go about things if he really does love his wife. But, I dunno, Maybe he's just looking for an excuse to leave. He did say he wanted out.
I think Dan was saying that telling your wife you want to leave her and the kids and run away forever is pretty extreme. Wanting to fuck other people would and should be less extreme but many of us want to make it otherwise.
I don't know if it really is less extreme. I don't see anything morally wrong with two people deciding that they want continue to be a couple but not be monogamous, but I think there are a lot of people who couldn't handle that. I'm very secure in my 15 year relationship, and I don't know if I could handle it. If his wife had checked out sexually, that would be one thing. But I think Dan is right that monogamy will always get boring--even if it's serial monogamy. But not everyone could handle a non-monogamous relationship. Are those the only two choices? That kind of sucks for the wife in this situation if she can't handle her husband fucking other women. Maybe if there were some communication in this relationship, there could be some compromise.
Thought I would clarify...When I say "handle it," I mean that I would be very jealous if my husband was with another woman. Even I knew that it meant nothing emotionally, I would still be jealous and that jealously might really screw up our relationship. TYTF didn't say his wife wouldn't have sex with him. He said it was boring sex. I think Dan is sort of painting this picture of monogamy as this outdated concept that has no basis in reality. But there are reasons why a lot of people don't want their partners to fuck other people that have little to do with with cultural norms and a lot to do with human nature.
I think it's interesting that fucking another woman on the side is considered "sparing the kids". We kids have a way of figuring these things out. And a secret affair is a lot more difficult to explain than we weren't happy, so we moved on. Not to say that they shouldn't try to communicate, get out of the house, etc. But the idea of an open relationship for people with kids just seems ridiculous and prone to scandal if you ask me.
Dear TYTF, welcome to the club.
Dan-Please plan to keep dealing with the machinery of monogamy. Great response to TYTF. We'll probably always have issues about monogamy, even after everyone agrees that it's of dubious value. You (and others) have made a huge impact on the experience of freedom and satisfaction in the area of sex of many many millions of people by discussing it over and over. I'm amazed--about half my friends (suburban, in our late 50's) now admit they have friends with open marriages. This is real progress. Keep it up!
TYTF,
I felt the same way. But I told my wife about it. She undoubtedly was hurt, but came to realization that she'd rather me be happy but still be married to me. So she let me be with other women. I have certain rules that I have to live by, but that's a small price to pay. Man up! Talk to your wife.
I'm new here and LOVE this blog....Dan you're straight up w ppl and funny just the same...looking forward to tomorrows...
I have to agree with SJ about TYTF. I don't think that just because a guy with a few kids is having a pretty typical mid-life crisis means his only chance at happiness is having an open relationship. I think it's really tragic that this guy doesn't say anything about if he's talked to his wife about it, tried to improve his relationship, or could give a shit about how she feels at all. To be honest, it sounds like he has a good reason to be bored if all he's doing is sitting around watching TV with his kids. It possible that his desire to fuck around has more to do with him being bored or disappointed with his job or where he lives, and an consensual affair won't solve the problem. Before freaking her out with an argument for an open marriage he should get a babysitter and spend a few nights going out and getting wild with is wife like they used to. Sex with more people is definitely not the only thing that makes life exciting.
That's what I was thinking. TYTF doesn't even start off talking about sex...he starts by noting that he loves "nightlife, crazy friends, and good drink." It sounds to me like the desire for new sex partners is simply another symptom of wanting more excitement in life. Lots of other avenues to explore with that (travel, switching jobs, taking night classes, etc.) before he takes the step that could ruin his marriage.
I completely agree.
@AML: You took the words right out of my mouth. Dan's advice was ass.
monogamy apologists and their rationalizations...funny stuff.
Dan's solution for TYTF is practical and spot-on. But TYTF, you sound like an ass. You don't seem to care about your wife's feelings at all. Saying "I love my wife", without considering her needs and potential boredoms--doesn't count. You'd be very lucky if she wanted to make it work with you and your 'gumars' (yep, it's 2011 and I made a Sopranos reference), but if she does, no double standards please! None of that territorial male crap when she takes home her Whole Foods guy.
TYTF is the perfect example of why I never want to get married.
@ CB: THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY. Some people are just really, really bad at taking compliments gracefully. I think the idea on their end is that they are trying to be humble and also probably feel embarrassed, but figuring out how to take a compliment is an important social skill. And, by not accepting the praise, you're only prolonging your own discomfort with the situation. Be gracious, say something brief and appropriate like "what a nice compliment, thank you!" and move on. Why is this SO EFFING HARD for some people?
It may not have anything to do with being complemented. Like Dan said, some people just don't like talking about sex.
That dude is GAY! Bottom line.You should refuse to pleasure him/let him pleasure you in the future until he can "come to terms" with the fact that he enjoys penis! It's not the worst thing in the world to admit to yourself or too others.
Dan's advice to TYTF is rock solid, and Dan's proselytizing against monogamy is actually very pro-marriage despite what some people may think. The truth is that monogamy can be difficult, soul-sucking, and lead to serious stagnation, even if you really, truly love your spouse. In my marriage, it was my wife who broached the subject of non-monogamy after we had been together for ten years. Initially I was livid, but I'm a pragmatic guy, and I quickly decided that I'd rather she jump somebody else's bones occasionally rather than live miserably. With the pressure of monogamy off the table, my wife and I are closer than we've ever been, more honest and intimate than we've ever been, and our sex life is now far better than it's ever been - when a woman in her mid-30s feels sexy and desirable, it's a beautiful thing to behold. And, while it's not easy to tell your spouse it's OK if they sleep with someone else, it basically forces you to be pretty damn self-confident...which members of the opposite sex find highly attractive. I've never been able to rock a woman back on her heels like I can today, backed up by an incredibly sexy wife who supports me in everything I do. In short, my marriage went from a negative trajectory that was probably leading towards divorce to an incredibly honest and awesome relationship that I truly believe will last until one of us dies. Love and monogamy are not the same, and sometimes the latter can really start to choke the former to death. YMMV, but loving someone unconditionally and without limitations is a powerful step that can really bring a calcifying marriage to life. Keep it up, Dan.
Now I'm just harping...sorry..but I find this discussion interesting. Why was your wife living miserably when she could only have sex with you? You use the words "the pressure of monogamy." In what way did she feel that monogamy pressured her? To be/do what? Why did she feel the need to have sex with someone else to be feel sexy and desirable? I'm not judging here. If it works for you, go for it. I just find it interesting because I'm in my thirties in a stable, long relationship (since being a teenager) and I've never felt like this because my relationship has been monogamous.
SJ, this situation is not for everyone, but I think it too often gets dismissed out of hand. Long relationships can cause partners to take one another for granted, even when you try to be conscious of that. And there is a lot of pressure that comes to bear when you feel that you have to provide for every one of your partner's physical and emotional needs or desires, or that you can only look to one person to get your own needs met. And some of us simply have strong attractions to other people even if we don't want to leave or give up existing relationships. She was miserable because she was trying hard to ignore any attractions she had to other people; I was doing the same thing, with varying degrees of success. Instead of constantly cramming down those feelings, we decided to simply be honest about them with each other, and realized that neither of us felt ready to completely give up the opportunity to have sexual contact with other people. Getting positive attention from somebody that you don't already know is into you is a great feeling - and we are able to get that in a way that involves less risk since we aren't looking for new life partners, but only for intimate friendships and dalliances. There will always be occasional jealousy issues in this type of relationship, but for me, the positives far outweigh any negatives. It's probably not like that for everybody, but we aren't all wired the same way.
so basically, this guy got married, had kids, and has now decided that he would rather be out partying than at home raising them? he should tell his wife that he's decided that he is bored and entitled to more fun. maybe TYTF's wife will decide she's bored with the responsibilities she created for herself too. then she can walk out on him and the kids and relive her college years while TYTF gets to be a single parent.
I wonder how much TYTF does to help with the kids and around the house. If he's anything like my ex, it's little to nothing and he leaves everything to his wife. Here's a clue, guys: when your wife works full time, then has to come home and do yet another full time job all by herself (housework, cleaning, laundry, kids) of course she's going to be too tired to want to do anything but veg in front of the tv.
I've read all the comments along with Dan's usual on-the-money advice. But the bottom line seems to be (and I'm a"mature" man): what does one do when one is a still very sexually-keen guy and one's wife, whom one still loves terribly, loses her libido? This being a fact. A common fact from what I have gathered both anecdotally and in reading of studies. Women often lose sexual interest as they age. Men rarely do. If God did exist, he's an asshole in the design department. But we nevertheless have this reality/dichotomy to face. Probably the "bit on the side" solution is the right one but socially and culturally, not to mention personally, this is very difficult to navigate.
Thus, sadly, the high rate of divorce. I know from experience how this goes down and it ruins lives. Sad, sad, sad...
Not saying this is true for all women who lose their libidos but ... women's sex drive comes from a very different place than men's. It's much more personal and emotional, and the turn-ons are more complex. Men continue to be aroused by random impersonal stimuli -- often just a visual, from what the men I know tell me. But we women have to work harder at being aroused and staying that way. I"m a fifty-something female with a high drive, but even to get myself off, I have to wait till the house is quiet, my mood is relaxed, no pressing deadlines ... whereas my boyfriend will still wake up hard in the morning and just take care of it. Such injustice! Add to that the other physical changes aging brings (less natural lubrication, insecurity about physical appearance, etc.) and you have a big hurdle to jump. Unless a woman's partner understands that, it can just become too much work for too little payoff.
If TYTF gets a pass to screw around, then so should his wife, fair's fair. But all in all TYTF sounds like a kid bored with his toys. Sack up, be a man/husband to your wife, make her humdrum existence more interesting and stop focussing about yourself you selfish shit. I bet you're a crap parent too. You get married, you have kids, it stops being all about yourself as a single-man unit, asshat.
re: TYTF - The problem happens for both parties, and it isn't necessarily about being "bored", nor does boredom mean you're a bad parent/partner/person.
We're all interested in sex, right? And sometimes figuring out what you really want, like, need in terms of your sex life comes later, or changes, evolves, grows.
So what do you do if you're in a long-term committed relationship with shared responsibilities, assets, lives? And your partner isn't a bad person; in fact, you still love them, but sex with them will never, ever be what you need. Even if you've really, really tried - you read the books, had the talks, watched the videos, saw the therapist?
Do we really have to suppress and pretend and grit our teeth? "Sucking it up" kills you inside eventually. You're not letting sex be a happy, important part of your life. Isn't it supposed to enhance our health, happiness, well-being?
So... like Dan says, we have to find a way to talk to our partners and figure out a compromise - it just has to be better than either extreme alternative our society is based on. Right?
Heteroflexibility is the term for people who are dominately heterosexual, but occasionally fuck a same sex partner. i consider myself a true heteroflexible. Homoflexibility happens as well.....more often than people think
About the bored straight guy, yea, marriage is hell but i like what Dan said, You've created the boredom by not willing to tell your wife the truth. Guess what creates boredom. Homeostatis. What creates that? Lying and not willing to take the chance to be honest. Your wife doesn't know you anymore because you haven't take the time or had the gonads to be straight with her. Tell her what's in your head. it might lead you down a rabbit hole of a lifetime.
One more thing. i had the thought be careful what you wish for. If you let her fly, you never know what might open there as well!
I followed the story of TYTF. Very interesting comments that followed. Some of them felt as if I was being spoken to directly. I expected most of the advice given. I would have said many of the same things. Funny though I arrived here while searching for answers to my own problems which are very similar. I just turned forty this week and as much as I hate to say it i feel every bit of it.
The last few years for me have been very difficult in my relation to my wife. My background is so fucking complex, as I sure is hers. This is surely a part of our difficult communication problems. I grew up very wealthy, she grew up pretty poor. We met in college and got married 15 years ago this month. Wev'e been together for 20 years. Now we have two kids, a big fat estate home, and all the trimmings of a multi-millionaire trust buster couple. Yes granddaddy did all the hard work and I'm I've been given all this responsibility to not blow it. We can do anything, go any where, practically buy anything but somehow I feel so un fulfilled and I know she is unhappy too. We have been through a lot together. The expectations are high for me though, I had to defend my marriage for years to my family and honestly, I am not driven likethose before me for success. I'd rather just be an artist and run from all the high expectations. As I've gotten older this has only worked its way deeper and deeper into my marriage.
I love her dearly as my wife, mother of my children, best friend, but the lover part has become hard. For starters when she got pregnant 10 years ago I started looking at internet porn to satisfy my thirst for sexual excitement while she was at her least desirable. This only created a rift. to make things worse she has a history of being sexually exploited or abused by a boy friend who date raped her in high school. I never knew of this until just 8 years ago. As the children came I became more and more isolated, the demands she wanted of me were none that I had been prepared for. In other words my parents are narcissists who divorced when I was 7 and totally sent me away to bording school so they could each get re-married. So I had bad parent role models, but so did she. No dad at all (Vietnam) and a Christian Evangelical mom who is to the right of Newt Gingrich. So...she wanted a great deal. I used porn to cope. Eventually I got so angry at her abusive tones and lack of noticing me that I sought out an affair. It was stupid. I got caught. I really had no interest in the girl either. I tried to use the moment to get a seperation, but because I love her and my kids so much I folded and we went to therapy. It made some things better but others are still hard. She forgave me because she's so faithful and loving. We agreed we wouldn't let it ever happen again. I want to stand by that but sometimes I just want to be loved and get her attention, but she is a busy mom and I don't think she really trusts me with much. I don't blame her.
But that doesn't change my problem. I love my wife, I don't want to fuck my kids lives up like hers or mine have been, but I want to intimate attention and exciting sex. Unfortunately, I still look at tons of porn and jerk off all the time. Now when we do make time to have sex I can't even stay hard or remain engaged. It always turns into a disaster. My use of porn and masturbation has only added another deep level of resentment by her as well. She is very aware of it. But we have not figured out how to make our intimacy be good again.
We both busy ourselves with shit to distract us from our problems She is always running the house and is sometimes being ugly to me in front of our kids. I think she feels like I let her down and dont meet her expectations. It's just like listening to the rest of my family.I feel alone and like a loser. I get depressed and then I just dream about other relationship situations but never act out of fear. I often want to run away to some other city to go make make art and leave it all behind, the money, wife, kids, family, everything!
I am such a lucky bastard with all that I have, but sometimes I feel that I really have not come very far in life and will never get to live any dreams I have had. I often wonder what a meaningful sexual relationship would be like with another person, but I don't want to end up the dick head dad who screwed his kids for his own pleasure.
TYTF - the obvious choice is to communicate with your girl. I hope to get there one day