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I am a mostly straight, twenty-two-year-old woman. I am a pretty GGG kind of gal. I am generally not put off easily, even if I am told things that don't quite do it for me.
So I just started seeing this guy. I haven't known him for long — no serious sexual activity other than mild foreplay. The other night, a few drinks in, we ventured into talking about sex and porn. When I asked what type of porn he watches, he said that he likes videos of "dirty whores, rape scenarios, and gang bangs." Now mind you, I like being treated like a dirty whore. And I love porn. But for some reason, this put me off. I ended up heading home early, and I am apprehensive about seeing him again.
Was my reaction legit? I've indulged other partners in bondage, BDSM, power games, and so on (which I am very much into). So why am I judging this nice, good-looking guy as a creep? — Turned Off And Displeased
SAVAGE LOVEFirst, TOAD, I want to praise you for trusting your gut and getting out of there. Everyone should follow your example: when someone is making you uncomfortable, folks, emulate TOAD — make your excuses and bolt. On to your question…
You've liked being treated like a dirty whore and you've done BDSM with other guys, so why are you judging this particular guy?
Someone who's turned on by extreme power games — hardcore BDSM, degradation, verbal abuse, role-play scenarios, sexist stereotypes — has to demonstrate that he (or she) is not just extremely trustworthy, TOAD, but extremely sensible. And when this guy shared his interest in some pretty extreme kinks so early in the relationship ("haven't known him for too long"), your gut rightly told you that this "nice, good-looking guy" wasn't someone with whom you would feel safe.
Because when he told you about his extreme kinks, TOAD, you simply didn't know him well enough to say to yourself, "Hey, that's some hardcore shit there — but he's proved himself to be a good person and I would feel safe doing this stuff with him." And not only didn't you know him well enough to come to that conclusion, he should've known that you didn't know him well enough to come to that conclusion.
By sharing his kinks too soon, TOAD, this seemingly nice guy demonstrated poor judgment and worse impulse control. And rock-solid judgment and gold-plated impulse control are the first and second things we should look for in someone whose sexual interests are way the fuck out there.
I don't think he should've lied, TOAD, but he should have had the common sense to kick the conversation down the road or downplay without misrepresenting, i.e., instead of saying, "I'm into dirty whores, rape scenarios, and gang bangs," he could have said, "I'm into experienced business women, some intense role-play scenarios, and I'm intrigued by group sex scenes with significant gender imbalances." Then, after you got to know each other a bit better, and after he had proved himself to be a decent, trustworthy guy with rock-solid judgment and gold-plated impulse control, he could've opened up a bit more and given you a clearer picture of his kinks, and perhaps done so without creeping you out.
I'm not saying that he's a creep or an abuser or a wannabe rapist — or that he's not all of those things. Maybe he's just young and inexperienced and hasn't learned how to talk about his creepy kinks without creeping people out, TOAD, or maybe the booze caused him to blurt out something he usually rolls out with more finesse. It's up to you whether you give him a second chance — but make the next date a dry one, and if he creeps you out, trust that gut of yours, make your excuses, and bolt.
I'm in my thirties, married, and bisexual. I have a problem with my wife. She does not accept my bisexuality as "real." While it is true that I lean toward women, I definitely find some men attractive, and I had some forms of sex with several men before I got together with my wife. However, since I never took it in the ass, she believes that I'm not really bisexual. Furthermore, she gets embarrassed when we are with our gay friends and tales of my man-on-man experiences come up. She wants me not to talk about it at all. I'm not hitting on anyone, or contemplating cheating on her with a man, or anything, just talking about the past — or agreeing with her when she says Clive Owen is totally hot.
Am I wrong to think that she is being kind of an asshole by not accepting my sexuality? Or am I just being selfish in not soothing her faithfulness fears? — Likes Men But Loves Wife
SAVAGE LOVEHm… your wife refuses to believe that you're bisexual because you never got around to taking it in the ass. There's a simple way to solve that problem, LMBLW: take it in the ass a couple dozen times and present your wife with a lovely boxed set of commemorative DVDs.
That would mean cheating on her, though, something you're not interested in doing and something she fears. I suppose you could point out that women with straight husbands aren't exactly guaranteed an adultery-free ride. Sandra Bullock, Jenny Sanford, and Elin Nordegren all married 100 percent heterosexual men — at least so far as we know at press time — and despite their husbands' failure to take it in the ass (no man's perfect), all three women wound up on the cover of In Touch, Us, and People.
But, while I think your wife is being a bit of an asshole (and a lot in denial) by not accepting your bisexuality, LMBLW, regaling your gay pals with tales of your man-on-man experiences could annoy a spouse who was comfortable with your sexuality.
As a "not-stereotypical-looking" lesbian who tends to be attracted to other "not-stereotypical-looking" lesbians, I wish EVERY "single and looking" lesbian wore something that said so — like the lesbian reader last week who was thinking about going out in a "Single. Lesbian. Interested?" T-shirt. When I do go out to the one lesbian bar in my city, people look at me with that "What are you doing in OUR bar?" stare. — Show Me Your Status
SAVAGE LOVEThere are nearly twice as many gay-identified men out there as there are lesbian-identified women. This fact alone is all the proof we need that homosexuality isn't a choice. Considering what shits straight men can be — judging from my mail — surely more women would choose homosexuality if they could.
Anyway, it seems to me that what single lesbians need — in addition to dyke bars, internet personal ads, women's softball leagues, and cat-food aisles in grocery stores (man, those lesbian/cat jokes never get tired!) — is a secret sign. I'm thinking something subtle, SMYS, not because I'm pro-closet, but because I'm pro-tasteful. Message T-shirts? Never tasteful. And "Nobody Knows My Girlfriend Is a Lesbian" T-shirts are very 1995 (and highly unlikely to get a single girl a date).
Instead, maybe all lesbians everywhere should start wearing a button. No words, just a solid color, something small and tasteful that could be pinned to the strap of a purse (popular with "not-stereotypical-looking" lesbians), the lapel of a jacket, or the belt loop on a pair of jeans. Thinking outside the lavender/pink/purple box, I think the button should be green — green for "go," green as in "Go ahead and hit on me, ladies. I'm a lesbian."
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
FIND MORE
Miss Information: What’s the best way to ask a woman to have casual sex with me?
Ridiculous Tips For A Miserable Sex Life
Brave New World: A gay guy's bi anxiety and vision for a sexual utopia: "gender monogamy."








Commentarium (33 Comments)
I love the button idea but where could you find them in solid colors?
Jadyn, Go to a fabric store or a craft store. I would call a craft store a head of time to make sure they have buttons, but fabric stores always carry buttons (unless they're only quilting stores). The craft stores often have little baggies of really fun buttons in lots of different solid colors and sizes and shapes, while the fabric stores typically have buttons that you would want to sew onto clothes - some solid, some not solid.
awesome! i bought solid colored button earrings yesterday. teal counts as green, right?
"awesome! i bought solid colored button earrings yesterday. teal counts as green, right?" -- I think teal means you're bi. Unless you're a man, in which case being able to identify the color teal means you're gay.
Hm. Do we need a code? If I a guy's in a gay bar, I don't care how 'straight' he looks, I'm allowed to hit on him, and he can't be offended. It's the glory of the gay bar.
In San Jose, CA and surrounding cities, Teal means you are a Sharks fan (ice hockey).
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I'm really glad for Savage's first response. I'm "out there" in the dating thing (online largely), as a single adult woman, and am constantly given shit by men who want to get into the kinky sex discussion RIGHT away -- sometimes even before the first date. When I gently brush it off, I'm called a prude (if they had ANY idea...) and hollered at about being closed-minded and "if we're going to get together, even eventually, THIS STUFF IS IMPORTANT" and all this other pushy nonsense. Obviously, I take all of this as a clear sign that the guy I'm currently talking to is not right for me (since I'm not interested in dating assholes). Sadly (for them and for me), I AM a rather kinky, exploratory woman, and if these creepoids had any idea how to approach a non-totally-damaged woman, they'd be amazed at what they could actually "have."
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Labrys necklace? It's something that would be recognizable to any gay woman but not catch the attention of others.
Seriously ND,a labrys? Maybe the over 40 set and only maybe. Also it has a feminist connotation which might confuse those looking for girl-on-girl action. Dan's button idea is not bad but an 'identifier' needs to be more in the genre of pocket bandanas and the single pierced left ear of the 70's. Gay men will always be the trendsetter and figure out out to fuck each other first...
DC!!! Yes!! Yes!! Met a guy online, talked for a while, decided to meet for lunch.. he spends the first 10 minutes trying to reach across the table and grope my breast, when that fails, he turns his attention under the table trying to get his foot betwen my legs. um.. hello?!? he says that he thought I was more "adventurous".. so I stand up, put $10 on the table to cover my half of whatever.. I'm very adventurous, but I'm not giving everything up right off the bat.. that's something you earn with your investment in time and trust.. i'll go along way.. but on my terms, and not at mid-day in a downtown restaurant... the creep factor on that one was high.
Sissy, I'm always saying "time and place, time and place." Savage nailed it when he said "And rock-solid judgment and gold-plated impulse control are the first and second things we should look for in someone whose sexual interests are way the fuck out there." And, you know, even if they aren't all that out there. Jesus, give it an HOUR at least! ;)
I have a great idea! How about wearing different coloured bandanas hanging out of your pockets?
@DC & Sissy, Right on! You have to be sure that someone respects you before you start playing around with power games.
single guy here. yeah i don't think it's appropriate for a guy to spill all his sexual fantasy beans right away. it just freaks women out. men don't realize women want to fuck too, but they need to feel safe about it first, even if there's extreme role play at some stage.
As a man who prefers to answer direct questions with direct answers, I'm a little iffy with Dan's response. His example of downplaying sounds more like obfuscating. I applaud the guy in question for telling the stark truth, but he should have buffered it by emphasizing that it's merely fantasy role play, as well as expressing a sincere statement of his respect for women or making a self-effacing humorous remark.
Go back and read the first letter again. "When I asked what type of porn he watches,". She asked what kind of porn he watched. He answered truthfully. How did HE "want to get into the kinky sex discussion RIGHT away ".
there is already a lesbian sign code in effect. it includes meeting any 4 of the following criteria:
1. cool hairstyle
2. cool glasses
3. short nails
4. chunky watch
5. thumb ring
6. nose ring
7. cool shoes
8. cool belt
9. no purse
4/9 ftw.
I have the same problem everyone thinks that I'm straight and people don't believe me because I don't "look like a lesbian" I am femme I like my lipgloss and Coach purses, I do have nose ring haha I'm also not the type to be the one to approach, I like the button idea, i've been told that I hang out with too many gay boys so we will see
@DS Sorry to disappoint DS but I meet none of those criteria in the way you are speaking of. Yet, I love the ladies.
@Hold On - Great point that everyone else here seemed to miss. Why is the guy getting all the flack because he answered a very direct question with honesty? Is this an example of when women would prefer to be lied to? Personally I wouldn't worry about his answer. It is clearly just fantasy and is very unlikely to reflect on his actual sex life. However, if he had answered that he enjoyed watching child porn, scat sex, etc. then I would be a little more concerned with his personality.
Kudos to the guy for owning up to his porn. He could have played safe and just lied. Bummer he couldn't finesse it a bit better instead of launching into graphic depictions, though. That's where the judgement/impulse thing comes in and the crit still applies, whether he actually does it or not. Definitely creeping into the creep out zone.
What do you think?
What do you think?
i have a mixed perspective on the porn blurter. first off, in this specific scenario, i do not agree that the guy did anything wrong. sure, if he came out and said, "hey, so, let's talk about porn. i just love seeing dirty whores getting raped," in the midst of a somewhat average conversation, he probably is a sex-freak/wacko. however, clearly, by the woman's description of the event, they ventured into the conversation together, and "she" was the one who asked "him" what type of porn he prefers. if that's not her thing & it freaked her out, that's her prerogative. i don't understand why she was put off though, since she finds that type of "dirty" sexual activity thrilling.....sounds like a double standard to me. the guy could have lied and said... oh, i just love looking at erotica and seeing two girls lovingly hold each other and make out...etc., but he chose to tell the TRUTH.....sadly, American women, the MAJORITY of men in this country have perused the same material on the internet, and regularly get off to the same crap as this guy. if they tell you otherwise, they are liars.
like men but loves wife -
your wife sounds insecure. does she "know" that you have no intention of ever reliving your youthful transgressions? maybe in the back of her conscious mind, your sexuality is not the issue - it's your possible infidelity or her not feeling like she can give you something you want..... a penis. i'd make it clear to her that these stores are a part of your past, that you are not ashamed or embarrassed and don't understand why she gets upset about you talking about it, since you've found your soul's mate in her. Let her know that she is the only "person" for you now (if that is the case), and hopefully her fears and attitude will go away. on the other hand, if that's not the case, and you are digging up the past for a specific reason..unfulfilled desire possibly?? you might want to be honest about that, too.....maybe you guys could go to a sex store and buy her a strap-on if she is open to the idea jk.. kind of.
in response to savage love's response to show me your status -- hellooooo? ever heard of a rainbow?? duuh. it's colorful. it's bright. it's blissfully gay. the button idea is a good one though.
I made a site with green buttons for this purpose! http://lilgreenbutton.com... thanks!
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