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December 15, 2010
Savage Love
Should I give my teenage daughter a vibrator, or is that an invasion of her privacy?
By Dan Savage
I am a thirty-three-year-old married male who has a WAM — wet and messy — fetish. I'm into mud and clay. I have played with various substances in the bathroom by myself over the years. It always ends with me masturbating myself into oblivion, wishing there were someone with me so we could sensuously rub against each other, etc., until we both climax. But I'm always alone!
I was always too shy to share this fetish with anyone until three years ago, when I told the woman I've now been married to for two years. She assured me that I should never be ashamed of any of my fantasies and that she would be glad to help me fulfill them. But when I went and got some clay from the art store, showed it to her, and said that we were going to be having some fun, she acted uncomfortable. Once I got the bathtub full of the "mud," got naked, and started to coax her into the room, she totally freaked out.
Needless to say, I was mortified and disappointed, and there was $50 worth of clay in the tub that I didn't want to go to waste. So I locked her out and decided to try to make the best of it. This backfired because soon she was pounding on the door like she was jealous that I was in there pleasuring myself. I washed off, washed everything down the drain, and opened the door, but it was too late. She was angry and wouldn't say anything the rest of the day. Neither of us has spoken of it since.
I still have my fantasies, but now I feel I have to hide them. I have magazines and videos that I masturbate to, but it goes no further than that. So my questions are:
1. Am I some kind of a freak or weirdo?
2. Have you ever heard of this fetish before?
3. If so, why doesn't anyone else ever write to you about similar fetishes?
4. Will I ever be able to show this side of me to my wife, or should I just hide it from her forever?
Mis-Understood Dude
Let me get this straight: three years ago you shared your fetish and fantasies with the woman you married two years ago, and your then non-wife assured you that she wanted to help you fulfill all of your fantasies — but she completely flipped out when you filled the tub with clay. And twelve months later, you married her anyway?
I'm not endorsing the way you sprang a tub full of clay on your future wife — maybe she reacted badly because the bathroom was an unholy mess? Maybe you should've stopped everything and talked things through when she acted uncomfortable? Maybe the sight of you half-covered in mud and fully aroused was too much, too soon? — but why on earth didn't you get to the bottom of this before you married this woman?
Sounds to me like you really spooked the wife-to-be, MUD, both with that "Hey, here's a tub full of clay!" move and then, when she balked, by going right ahead with one of your solo mud-and-sex sessions instead of putting your orgasm on hold to, gee, go and inquire after the future wife's feelings about what just went down. At that moment, she may have concluded that given a choice between her and a tub full of clay, you would choose a tub full of clay — because that's just what you did... and yet she married you anyway.
People are fucking mysteries, man.
And in answer to your questions...
1. Yes, but your kinky weirdo freakiness is charming and harmless and not anything that you need to feel ashamed of, MUD.
2. Yes, yours is a relatively common fetish, MUD, one that exists on a continuum. Wet-and-messy play can involve substances that are harmless and represent a low barrier to entry for the loving, GGG, nonfetishist partner — mud, food, condiments, etc. — or substances that are not at all harmless and represent an impossibly high barrier to entry, e.g., shit, vomit, snot. Your kink could be much, much more problematic.
3. Other people have. Yours isn't the first letter I've run from/about a weirdo freak like you.
4. You already showed this side of yourself to the wife. She knows, you know she knows, but you're both pretending not to know what you damn well do know. To avoid becoming completely sexually estranged, TALK TO YOUR WIFE. Ask her what went wrong — how did she go from "never be ashamed… glad to help [you fulfill your fantasies]" to freaking out and pounding on doors and ignoring the mud-caked elephant in the room for more than three years?
Ask her to open up — beg her to open up — and apologize to her out of the gate for botching it, for rushing her, for being so insensitive as to prioritize the clay over her feelings after she freaked. And then tell her you want to be able to work on building a healthy, honest, and mutually satisfying sexual relationship, one that meets your needs and hers, but to do that you're going to have to start communicating with each other again.
I have a fifteen-year-old daughter. I am bisexual and work in marketing for the adult industry; both are things I explained to her when I thought she was old enough to form an understanding of what they meant.
Recently, I returned from an adult-industry convention, where I often pick up new toys. One of my gift bags contained a petite sparkly purple vibrator, and I thought, well, it's not my style, but maybe I should give it to my daughter along with a lecture on masturbation being a great alternative to sex. Even though I am an open-minded and cool mom, this thought still made me uncomfortable, and I relegated the new toy to my nightstand full of gifted-from-vendors toys that aren't my style.
I figured that no teenager wants to be given a masturbatory device by a parent. Was I wrong?
Teenage Masturbation Icky
No, TMI, you were right: no teenager wants to be given a masturbatory device by her parent. But that doesn't mean a teenager — even your teenager — wouldn't be delighted to have a masturbatory device. A moment of awkwardness and a little feigned teenage discomfort/disgust — perhaps even a show of discarding the device where it could be easily retrieved after Mom apologizes and retreats — is a price that most teenage girls would be willing to pay to have a brand-new sparkly purple vibrator of her very own. (Oh, and I'm thinking she knows about your drawer full of misfit sex toys. Maybe you could just tell her that anything in there that's still in its original packaging is up for grabs.)
Some gay friends said that girls don't ever think a penis is cute. I started asking all the chicks I know if they think cocks can be cute. Not one said yes. Gay guys think cocks are cute.
Curious Of Cock Knowledge
No man's cock is cute — well, no man's besides the man who got a Hello Kitty tattoo on the head. A cock can be hot, it can be beautiful, it can be vaguely threatening. But unless there's something very, very wrong, no man's cock is cute and no man wants to be told that his cock is cute.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
Commentarium (50 Comments)
No no no no no, please do not give your daughter a vibrator. Anything that sounds like it can reasonably be used as a plot device on Desperate Housewives is a terrible parenting decision. (Other examples include running over your neighbor's mother, starting a riot, and seducing a bisexual alcoholic sex addict.)
Hey me,
I'm going to ignore the fact that your analogy sucked. Why not just compare giving a daughter a vibe to the nazi's as well.
What I will say is that I'm sorry you were raised to feel ashamed or embarrassed about sexuality. I only pray that you never inflict those feelings on any other children.
ok i don't know if they're cute per se but they can be damned attractive. looks like a wet jollyrancher. tasty? yes. cute? if he's wearing lacy underwear... yes.
Good grief, if my mother had given me a vibrator when I was a teen I would have died and just gone into total freak , embarrassed meltdown. Some things mommys and daughters don't need to share. Dan was perfectly correct with his advice. And the fact that the mother is in the adult industry doesn't mean a thing.
My girlfriend has referred to my ballsack as cute. Is that a lie?
so, so wrong on two counts. no one ever wants a sex toy from their mom. not only will she associate that sex toy with her mom, but she might, in a more subconscious way, associate every vibrator she ever uses with her mom. most importantly: she will never use that fucking vibrator. because it will be the one her MOM GAVE HER.
and they will not be feigning disgusting. they will be disgusted. not by a vibrator, by the implication that their mom is sexual and can think things like, "this vibrator is not my style."
also, straight girl here--cocks are cute. seriously, who doesn't think this. they just look so happy.
there are some children who would not be totally mortified by getting a vibe from their mom.
however, if you don't already know that your child is one of them, she probably isn't.
remember that you are not giving the vibrator only to your daughter. you pretty much need to accept that you are effectively giving it to her, her immediate friends, any sex partners she may have, possibly all her facebook friends, and there may be pics of it on tumblr. all pointing back to you. it will be in a bunch of teenagers' back pockets as a story that they can use as they go around manipulating each other and their parents, which, let's be honest, is what teenage girls spend most of their time trying to do.
maybe you are cool with being the 'mom who gave her daughter a vibe' but this is something that can get screwed up and thrown back in your face by your daughter and pretty much anyone else who knows about it.
again, I think the fact that you're asking "should I give my 15-year-old-daughter a vibe" means that you probably shouldn't. I'm not saying 15-year-olds shopuldn't HAVE vibes, they totally should, but that's a wrinkle in the teen/child relationship that might be more trouble than it's worth.
A house with an entire drawer full of unused sex toys and a teenager. I'm pretty sure this problem will take care of itself (if it hasn't already). Kids have a preternatural ability to find that kind of stuff - just ask any boy whose father had a collection of "special" magazines.
PERSON 1 is too uptied about it. it's just mud for christ's sake. 70% of the women i know would be happy to play with their significant other in a mud-filled tub if they promised to clean up afterwards. maybe you're surrounded by uptied people, and that's why you're so worried about this? anyway Dan is right with everything he told you.
PERSON 2: Do you have any other sex-positive women in the family? maybe you can turn it into a party, invite them all, place the box with everything you haven't used on a table and everyone can pick what they want. and you invite your daughter, like you're welcoming her to the big girls club, and since there are other people there you don't have to know exactly what she got.
PERSON 3: cocks can be really cute soft and behind lacy panties. but a hard cock naked or in any other clothing? if it's cute then it's not fuckable, IMHO.
@VoR Ain't that the truth. Can you imagine the candyland a drawer of unopened sex toys would seem to a girl? I'm pretty sure just throwing that shit in there and ignoring the drawer forever means that it will get used.
Also I feel very bad for MUD but in a way, it's his own damn fault for marrying someone who claimed to be GGG and then completely was not.
Also I'm a lady and I think a cock can be totally cute, when flaccid. If it's hard and cute-- yikes, rainbow is right. Definitely not something I'd grind on.
TGI, you're the best mom ever.
Rainbow,
Get a dictionary. Uptied? Seriously? Have you tried sounding out the word?
NIck143, I'm going to ignore the fact that there was no analogy in my original post. I am not ashamed or embarrassed about my sexuality, but there are boundaries that I (and I'm guessing around 98% of Americans) do not want my parents to cross. I don't want to get a sex device from my mother, ever. Maybe it's different because I'm male. It would have been great if my Catholic parents had been more sex-positive or even talked about sex, but under no circumstances would I ever be comfortable with that level of intrusion into my sex life.
Rainbow -- the word you're looking for is "uptight." As in, I'm so fucking uptight I had to correct you on this.
actually AWP i'm from argentina and i use dictionaries only for important things. did you understand the message? then everything's ok. if you didn't because of one word, then you're not the most resourceful cub in the pack, are you.
I don't understand why a dad giving his son issues of playboy is commonplace but a question about a mom giving her daughter a vibrator makes people freak out so much
Giving a daughter a vibe reminds me of that scene in American Pie where the dad is showing his son porn magazines. The father thinks he's being helpful and the son is dying of discomfort.
I can get where MUD's wife might be freaked out. I would worry about mud getting into places it shouldn't.
:)Commented - I think the poster was implying Dad's stick mags were a resource covertly exploited rather than generously offered. Rainbow, I think AWP was offering up some sarcasm aimed at your spelling Nazi nemesis, not you. Right, that's enough mediating from me, gotta go throw some chunky homespun sweaters in the fire and pulverize some mood crystals.
I completely agree with Dan's advice for the second letter. If my mom had given me a vibrator as a teen, would I have been embarassed? Absolutely. Would I have used it? Absolutely. And its ridiculous to say that she would "associate it" with her mom forever. I'm pretty sure a teen can find something better to think about than her mom while masturbating. Also, its just not true that all teens are traumatized by seeing their parents as sexual beings. I never wanted to hear intimate details, but jeez, I knew they were human.
If a teen girl should have a vibrator, but should not get it from her mom, who should she get it from?
DEAR GOD DO NOT GIVE THAT TO YOUR DAUGHTER. If she's being raised in a sex-positive household, she'll figure it out on her own without the need for painful awkwardness!!!!
Me,
You're absolutely right, I'd say around 98% of Americans would be uncomfortable with this. This is the country that believes a naked human body would be harmful for a child to see on tv but people getting murdered is ok as long as it's after 9:00pm.
This is also the country where "How to Attract (member of the opposite sex)" is a billion dollar industry.
Latin countries, by comparison, don't have billion dollar industries such as these, and I'd also be willing to bet that 98% of the individuals in these countries wouldn't be as freaked out by something like this as Americans are.
It could be that the barriers between the sexes wouldn't be as wide and leading to millions of unhappy and lonely singles wondering why their sexual compliment seems so alien - if we didn't carry such stigma, confusion, and shame regarding sexuality in the first place.
yeah i mixed up the names. i meant ab. total brain fart. sorry AWP! you were really nice =)
about the magazines... i don't think it's the same. giving your daughter a vibrator is like giving your son a fleshlight.
I know I'm not allowed to be here... but AS a teenager with VERY conservative parents who would probably be HORRIFIED to find out their daughter masturbates, I would be touched and elated if my mom gave me a vibrator. I would be mortified when it happened, and would probably deny touching myself, but I would use it and be grateful
Can I just add something to the vibrator thing? You shouldn't give your kids sex toys not because some kids are raised to be prudes or some kind of parenting fault leads them to make the situation uncomfortable, but because some kids just are prude and uncomfortable. Nothing in my childhood (that I can remember) led me to be prudish. My sisters are much more open and intimate than I am, and my parents talk about next to everything, and not in an embarrassing way. I'm just prude and it's something that has shaped me into who I like being today, both by keeping some neuroses and battling others. Seriously, respect the private personalities of your kids and don't force them into situations that could traumatize them. I like Dan's suggestion of making a blanket offer: "You know I get all kinds of samples, so if you ever find anything still in sealed packaging, help yourself!" Then no specifics have to be mentioned, and it's left in the daughter's hands if she feels comfortable accepting. Tolerance runs both ways, I think, in such a way that prude parents should try to respect their open kids, and open parents should try to respect their prude kids.
i am an actual teenage girl. granted i am a sexually... mature one, but i am not completely unique. i COMPLETELY agree with dan on this one. while it would be horrifying to have that little chat with my mom, i would really appreciate a vibrator gift, so it would be worth it. Its not like a lot of teenagers know how to get their own after all. It would not be emotionally scarring or anything like some people are suggesting, just embarrassing for 5 minutes and then hilarious and useful after that ;)
Many years ago, when I'd first started getting my period, my mom was worried about how bad my cramps were, and asked if I thought I might want a vibrator to help with that. Being 14 or something, I probably rolled my eyes and said "Moooom!", but if she'd just given me one, I'm sure I wouldn't have rejected it or been scarred in any way. I think Dan's suggestions are spot on-- or simply hand a vibe off to the daughter without much comment, maybe even leave it in her room so she can be embarrassed on her own time.
Anecdote: My grandfather, my 82 (at the time), grandfather told me ribald jokes (gin= the panty remover)-- and made sure I was "using protection" even as he put it "I'm sure your mother has talked to you". It was incredibly embarrassing at the time but now it's a great story of the kind of character he was. Not everyone has hangups and be emotionally traumatized by a little sex talk. We all do it. Everybody fucks, guys. Everybody fucks or gets kinky (except for asexuals and that is complete OK!)
Mom offered me a huge bag of condoms and foam when I was 13. Not cool. I think you have to get a feel for your kid first and decide from there. Sex was the last thing on my mind then and didn't even occur to me until much later.
The way to give it is to say " I know you have no use for this but you might have a friend who wants it or wants to have a laugh at it. Do you want to see what you can do with it?" You might offer it with an accompanying batch of grotesquerie and you should not under any circumstances suggest that you think she might ever use it herself.
Not everybody has hang-ups but some people do. The default position shouldn't be that they should get over them.
I'm a young woman (24). I had fairly conservative parents, who talked some about sex but mostly made it sound scary, and who never talked about masturbation. Instead, I learned about masturbation from the kids at school... specifically, that it was very gross if a girl masturbated. Throw me in with the group of people who think it would have actually been nice if my mom had talked in a positive way about masturbation.
It never occurred to me to give my daughter a sex toy when she was a teen--she's nearly 30 now and I haven't gotten her a holiday gift, maybe I should ask if she would like one.
As a teenage girl myself, I'm sure that your daughter would love to have a vibrator (I know I would), but if you embarrass her in the process she probably won't be inclined to use it. I think if might be best if you leave the box in her room with a simple note. If she wants to talk to you, she will.
Where's a cool aunt when you need one, amirite?
Flaccid cocks can be cute. Hard ones....no.
I would be mortified if my mother presented me with a vibrator, but oh so thankful. I like the idea of having an open drawer (granted her daughter has likely already found it--in which case a hint like "anything you find unopened in my room you can take" would suffice). I feel like generally speaking, teens should feel open enough with their parents to talk about sex, something I know my somewhat conservative parents were not down with. I wish they had actually talked to me and about my options, protection methods, etc. instead of leaving it to the public education health ed program. Teens want their parents to trust them, and see them more maturely than when they were in middle-school. I guess it's about finding that balance, not being invasive, but being supportive and open.
Tia got it in one. If you are a mom, get some other cool lady at one or two removes to give your daughter a vibrator that you've picked out! I am a stepmom and intend to take my stepdaughter vibrator-shopping when she turns 14.
There don't seem to be many parents or teachers joining in the discussion here. As someone who spends a lot of time around teenagers, I can tell you that they are not made of porcelain or meringue and they will neither shatter nor dissolve when confronted with an awkward situation. They may be be mortified, but they will grow up to be whomever they will be, regardless. You can't scar a child with one conversation--especially a teenager, as they are usually pretty set in their disposition by the age of fifteen. Children are molded by attitudes they are exposed to over time, not isolated incidents (barring extreme and usually criminal circumstances). Many people have drawn on their own experience to say that they would have been mortified by such a gesture...fair enough, but they probably would have also been mortified if their mother was a bisexual working in the adult industry. Already, this girl's experience is markedly different from their own!
Don`t go to her and just start talking... Wait for a good moment that comes up by itself... tell her it is normal if girls and boys start to discover their own body... it`s a part of their sexuality and important for the rest of their sexual life. Noone HAS TO, but it`s good if they do find out, what kind of touch and caressing they like. Don`t give her a dildo, but talk to her about it, if you think she`s ready for that kind of conversation.... You can offer her, to show her different kinds and she can choose, what ever she would like to try out. But if you ask me, she should first practice only with her hands and fingers. If she`s a vergine, the first thing she should ever feel inside of her, should be her- by that time - boyfriends "LoveStick" Nothing will ever be better for her, than the heat and the feeling in that moment. No Dildo in the world can give her that moment!
I got my first vibrator from my priest. It made me uncomfortable at first, but then he added lube and it went right in.
When I found out my teen daughter was having sex - at what I considered too young of an age, we talked. I lectured about safety, peer pressure, etc. I couldnt imagine it was any *good* at her age (since most teen fumblings aren't), but she assured me it had nothing to do with boyfriend pressure, that it just felt good. I shuddered and told her I wished she would masturbate instead as it is safer. She looked me straight in the eyes and told me that she was too young to buy a vibrator. I blinked, then suggested the internet. She asked for my credit card. And that is how and why I, a mother...bought my daughter a vibrator. I dont know if it cut down on her sex with boys, but that was the hope anyway.
If it's a 10" cock and as thick as a beer can, then it's fine to say "it's cute". Anything smaller than this, go with "it's hot".
There are plenty of people in life you can share your sexuality with. Your parents don't have to be one of them. Leave it in a really obvious place or tell her it could be a funny gag gift for someone if she wants it. It might be an obvious lie, but all three friends I had in high school who had "cool moms" turned out to be a mess. As long as you aren't teaching shame about sexuality, you don't have to be involved in it. Also, it could push her into something she isn't ready for.
As a teen, i had a friend whose mother gave her a vibrator. technically, it wasn't a sex-toy vibrator, but rather an innocuously-shaped "massager". anyway, i was jealous. you know your daughter. if it seems like she would be embarrassed by a direct talk, then maybe do as others have said and let her know that she's welcome to anything unopened. Casually comment that you have no clue what's in that drawer anymore, you just throw stuff in there.
just let her find them in the draw or go ann summers by herself. They are easy enough to buy in there!
TMI: It's one of those "if you have to ask" scenarios. The woman in my life has teenage daughters, and offering them an unwanted "toy" would be a non-issue for her. She has cultivated a realtionship with them where she is their "go to" person for sexual information and advice. No matter what they bring to her, whether it's porn they found online or thinking of having sex with their boyfriend, they know they can count on her not to freak, judge, or lecture, just offer the best advice she has, and they do ask, whenever they are unsure about something. Sounds like you aren't on that kind of ground with your daughter.
I think Dan's advice about just saying "anything in that drawer in the original box is up for grabs" is great. I'd go with that if I were you.
I think dan's advice was PERFECT. don't even talk to her about it, leave a note, and leave the house. lol I wouldn't even mention anything about it, or mention that anything is missing. lol (ok a little extreme but you get the point)
Nice article you have written.I like the way you write. Great, keep it up.