DISPATCHES

Reader Feedback on "Who Are the Feminists for Life?"

I think, perhaps, you have misread the FFL site. They do not believe that parenting is the only choice, they believe strongly in adoption too. My question for you is, Why do we have such a broad reaching standard on abortion? Rape, incest, molestation and potential maternal death make up less than 1% of all abortions performed in the US, but the law allows for everyone to choose one, hmmm. A woman can choose abortion for any reason, at any time during the pregnancy; the only hang-up could be finding a "doctor" who will perform the procedure. It doesn't take much research to learn of the physical and emotional risks of your so-called safe abortions. The number of proven abortion related maternal deaths in 1972 is 20, and in 2002 is over 200. How much safer is it really? Every state law is different, but many states allow for abortion providers to be non-mandatory reporters of maternal deaths related to their services. Now, abortion providers could choose to report maternal deaths, and maternal medical complications (i.e. torn uterus, incompetent cervix, etc.), so why don't they? Judging by the number of women that I know personally who've been physically, irreparably harmed by their abortion decision, it's because the numbers would be too great and the world might get a clue as to how dangerous and harmful these procedures are. Abortion is not a choice any one should have to make when there are other options that protect the health of the mother and the life of the fetus.
--ES
05/11

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--rd
04/11

"It's hard to argue with their efforts to help women by making parenting a truly viable choice. Problem is, their goal is to make parenting the only choice." I've heard a bit about this organization. Obviously they support adoption as well as an alternative to parenting responsibilities. They believe in non violent alternatives to abortion, not necessarily the biological mother assuming parental responsibility. There is also a statement on the website that they don't support a mother going through a pregnancy if her and her child were likely to experience dual life threatening consequences- that that would NOT be "pro-life". I don't find anything "dangerous" about this expression. I don't understand why one cannot be a feminist and pro-life as well just because the view abortion as a human rights issue rather than a "women's health" issue? I am pro life but also pro-women's health care, equal rights, equal pay, gay marriage and most other liberal interests. I was pro choice most of my life until it occurred to me that that was more "dangerous" than anything else.
--JA
03/06

Feminism is about affirming the rights of females human beings. Being pro-life is about affirming the rights of unborn human beings. Not only are the two compatible, the two groups overlap!
--NL
01/28

WOW What a stupid person you are. I guess pictures of bloody little feet, cant phase you. Before making such ignorant comments, why dont you do something really intelligent and find out what abortion really is.
--MAM
01/24

Maybe Feminists for Life are not your mom's feminist group, but much history suggests they are connected to th e feminists who helped your grandma (or great-grandma) vote-- and many key feminists apparently thought and said that abortion was one huge sign of the vast lack of power of mid 19th century women... Before the vote, various other rights of property, parenthood were extended to women - and 19th century feminists helped your female ancestors acquire these basic rights we all take for granted. (See Feminists for Life site for extensive historical sources on 19th to early 20th Century feminism. ..) Nowadays, the NEGATIVE choice of abortion seems to be the one big issue of current feminism. All other issues are footnotes. What a SAD weakening of feminism!!! I remember when 1960's feminists loudly challenged the BIGGEST single hurdle to women even having the chance to make free choices - the JOB inequity situation (which we all know still exists). But a search of THOMAS (the list of bills going to the government - ) shows that women today seem to think that "abortion" is almost the only thing to push for. When the government stats abundantly show that poverty (including the temporary poverty of college women) as well asLACK of the male partners' emotional and/or financial support - are the big reasons for much abortions, why aren't feminists working to give women more Economic power? Why aren't feminists loudly condemning men who wimp out on their father responsibilities---and working for better child support laws? Work for better job equity - including giving teen girls a view of why they should work for their economic future and maybe even forego dating for a while - (my beautiful 18 year old is allowed to date but is currently working on her economic future) Give them a vision-if ONE girl per high schoolfollows this vision, she is likely to make better choices if she dates LATER when her personal self is better formed. (She likely - if FULLY educated about the consequences of having sex will know SHE bears most of the possible serious consequences - SHE gets hit with MOST of the emotional health issues, the pregnancy issue (of course), the STD possibilities including a heightened risk of early cervical cancer which are some possibilities with sexual liaisons)
--vk
12/17

"After all, "vegetarians" eat fish" That should read "some people who call themselves vegetarians eat fish". Most of us don't!
--AM
08/30

I am a WOMAN! I think abortion is violent, to think otherwise is fooling yourself. Rape and incest is a very, very small percentage and is grasping at straws. I also challenge you to speak to women who "chose" to keep their babies who were concieved via rape (I know 3). Abortion never entered their minds. You don't kill a child because of the violence of someone else, that is selfish. I am proud to be a woman and mom. I am also mourning the loss of the two babies I aborted. My remorse has nothing to do with religion or guilt but the research I did on human life and what it entails. Ten fingers, ten toes, a mouth, two eyes, two ears, a nose, a heartbeat and brain waves. Does the child actually have to say, "Mommy, I love you, please don't kill me" before we realize that this is NOT how to care for your child? Please do not demonize those who view feminism and pro life as the same. My daughter had all the markers for Down's Syndrome and you know, we never even got an amnio. Why? Why would it matter. She was born healthy and perfect and would have meant nothing less to us had she been born with an extra chromosome. And just so you know, a woman who does not want to raise a child, also has the option of adoption. I know many families (gay ones, too, praise God) who would give anything to take care of these wonderful gifts. So please, we are not anti choice, we are pro life.
--NN
08/29

Scary? the rhetoric of fear is always a sign of weakness - true feminism should be about strength, not about trying to sink to the lowest common denominator aka dead white slave-owning wife beating males who, just like the pro-abortion feminists of today, were reluctant to give up any of their selfish pleasures even if it meant the abuse of human rights.
--rb
05/12

Nice rant. Now, let's get to the facts: It is you, and not our great-grandmothers -- or our daughters -- who don't know the meaning of the word feminist. You and your ilk -- yes, my own generation -- have perverted the very word itself. Feminists for Life embodies the very essence of what feminism is and should be. Are you too bitter to understand that? You do have one thing right: Women are getting wiser, and the temporary insanity that took over feminism in recent decades will indeed right itself. You are on the side of feminism that is going to fade into infamy and obscurity, so get used to it. Oh, and yes. Abortion IS a form of violence against women. Every time.
--EM
09/11

"....we believe that pregnancy is not a punishment or anything to be ashamed of (and it's time we stopped treating pregnancies that result from rape or incest as such).." Excuse me but I was date-raped 10 years ago and had an abortion after 6 weeks. The whole thing was traumatic. After some years of therapy and a loving partner I'm over IT now. I can't think of anything more traumatic, violent and humilliating for me than having had that child (a product of hate,not love) being reminded constantly of the crime someone commited on me once and feeling the guilt of having given a child of mine on adoption. And these ladies called themselves feminists? Get a grip.
--CT
12/09

O.k, so I just found the solution to the err.."abortion dilema": Pro-life women should have the right to choose not to have an abortion and pro-choice women should have the right to have an abortion. I TOTALLY REFUSE to have some dude who supports the mass murder of thousands of kids in middle east countries and talks with a midwestern tweak to take decisions for me regarding what goes on inside my womb. I don't care if that dude is married to some chick who dresses tacky and promotes "female utopia". Obviously we belong to different religions, mine says that abortion is right. FFL are the first ones to talk about the "freedom of this country" (as in "freedom fries","war for freedom" etc..) So LET ME EXERCISE THAT FREEDOM while I LET YOU EXERCISE YOURS. Just don't impose your religious beliefs in me because (thank god) we don't live in a middle east country.
--BB
12/09

I do not agree with the criticism that FFL are making "parenting the only choice". The way I see it is they are trying to reduce the number of abortions by offering a woman, who would rather parent but feels she will ruin her life and therefore the life of her child, better options to attain her life's goals while still being a good parent. I myself became pregnant at the exact time I recieved my acceptance letter to a university and felt that the only choice I had was to have an abortion. I believe it was important that I had the option to a safe abortion. However, I feel I may not have gone through with the procedure had there been better options available to me that would allow me to be a successful parent while actively attaining my degree. My abortion happened almost exactly 8 years ago and it remains a painful memory for me to this day. I do not regret my decision to have had an abortion, however, I do regret that there seemed no possible way to appropriatly care for my child while completing my college degree. I do feel that had I parented that child I could not have had a prosperous future. I do agree that a woman should have the choice of a safe abortion, but, I think it would be wonderful if more choices existed that would allow a woman to attain her goals at the same time as being a successful single parent.
--CC
12/02

Oh, I have more. I understand that the FFL feels there is always an alternative to abortion if they recognize that not all women want to be mothers. But for me personally, if I were raped and became pregnant I think that carrying that pregnancy to term would absolutely destroy me. The whole idea of that makes me ill. Forcing a woman to carry a child that is a result of rape is psychological torture. That may not be the same for everyone but I suppose that's the whole point huh? There should be a CHOICE involved.
--DKN
12/02

I think it's interesting that the FFL sees the necessity of abortion as evidence that society has failed women. However, there are many contradictions to that. Abortion (and it�s necessity) has been around for as long as we have written history (and before that, I�m sure) and to me that means that making abortion unavailable would be failing women. I do think they are right-on when it comes to preparing women to be parents, but how realistic is that considering the way our society has failed the poor? This isn�t a realistic goal though I believe it�s something we should be teaching young men and women anyway. It would be an excellent thing to add to a curriculum of comprehensive sex education, if that ever becomes a reality. And as a feminist myself, I have a hard time philisophically accepting them as one of my own because they seem to believe that all women WANT to be parents or should HAVE TO be a mother, and that simply isn�t so. Women are sexual beings regardless of their desire to reproduce, thus I believe their logic is quite flawed.
--DKN
12/02

Miss Harris, thank you for your expository article on the Feminists for Life organization. I agree that "[i]t's hard to argue with [FFL's] efforts to help women by making parenting a truly viable choice." When FFL makes concrete steps towards creating a supportive environment for college students who are parents, everybody wins. However, I do wish that you addressed the real heart of the matter, which is their philosophy, that "women deserve better" than abortion. FFL says that "abortion is a reflection that our society has failed to meet the needs of women," and consequently their organization focuses on "systematically eliminating the root causes that drive women to abortion -- primarily lack of practical resources and support." FFL also claims that "abortion is an act of violence." Does the pro-choice side repudiate this, and if so, how? If not, then women truly deserve better.
--rfm
11/30

The author suggests that "They'll respond because they'll mistake these efforts for some sort of new "middle ground" � though it's one that feminists who support abortion rights have occupied for years." But some of FFL's efforts are not a mistake, and no, pro-choice women aren't duplicating all their efforts. Find me a pro-choice group that can deal with my religious faith intelligently and make me feel welcome within my religious practice, like FFL women can. I have yet to find a pro-choice group with the possible exception of Frances Kissling's CFFC (Catholics for a Free Choice) that can respond intelligently to the moral dilemmas posed to a pregnant woman with religious faith who is considering her options. The vast majority of pro-choice groups are secular groups, and they just don't get it. FFL comes close to a "middle ground" by focusing attention on making parenting a viable choice. I do not believe in outlawing all abortions, so I don't belong to FFL. But I know of no pro-choice groups who are focusing their efforts on making parenting a socially viable option in the same way FFL does, instead of obsessing over Roe v. Wade. If you do, pass them along as I would be interested to learn about them.
--hab
11/22

Wow, EN I feel you really mixed up what I had to say, and took things out of context. I will be glad to try to clear things up. It is difficult tho because you wrote such a sweeping unspecified generalization that is so provocative, I'm not sure where to begin. Which "medical complications of carrying an extremely dangerous pregnancy to term" are you talking about? Pro-choicers often speak of these without addressing them specifically. Without getting into specifics, (bec then this post would be waaaaaay too long), you can go case by case and there is always another medical option that can be applied to protect both the life of the mother and child in a dangerous pregnancy. (Just ask the AMA.) There is always the *possibility* of medical complications, as in any medical situation -- the pro-choice side exploits this fact to suit their argument. They argue that because there is a *possibility* of a complication (which can be something like difficulty in carrying another baby to term -- a complication that can arise from an abortion, too), abortion has to be an option. However, when you try to talk about the complications that can arise from an abortion (oh, but wait, we can't tell women about those complications bec that would be intimidation!) -- it seems they don't exist. It's all smoke and mirrors to try to misdirect us from what is really the issue. Should a child be killed in the womb when there is another option that will give both the mother (and yes, the mother's life is even more closely protected) and child a chance? You present it as tho we are asking women to face a *certain death* to continue a pregnancy -- and as if the complications of an abortion are benign. Women die from "perfectly legal" abortions -- we'll never know how many thanks to roadblocks from the pro-choice side (can rarely find them in the public record, let alone a medical journal). The silence on this fact from the pro-choice side is deafening. But if even one woman died from taking a menopause supplement, then there would be an uproar. Why the disparity? The good news is that with medical advances, the number of women facing an "extremely dangerous" pregnancy is dropping, and the number who seek abortions is a very small percentage. The bad news is that the pro-choice side uses these cases to justify thousands of medically *un*necessary partial-birth abortions every year, not to mention as part and parcel of their argument to justify 1.3 million abortions every year. Over 3500 a day. Rare, indeed.
--CM
11/21

CM wrote: "We oppose abortion in the "save-the-life-of-the-mother" concept because there is *always* another medical option. Sadly, the unborn child does not always survive the other medical treatments, but the mother always can survive without resorting to abortion." "After an abortion, her world is at best the same, at worst made a lot less desirable from medical complications." In other words, the medical complications of carrying an extremely dangerous pregnancy to term are milder than those of an abortion. Any medical journal citations to back that up?
--EN
11/21

Please don't assume that people who identify as prolife feminists oppose contraception. I, and many others, endorse contraception, outercourse, and same-sex relationships as choices that people should be free to make. I for one have taught teens about different methods of contraception and worked actively for contraceptive access and GLBT rights legislation. Consensual sexual pleasure is a good in its own right and it doesn't have to be accompanied by procreation--although when that happens, by intention or not, all human lives involved need and deserve the utmost respect and support, at all levels of society, before, during, and after birth.
--M
11/20

I appreciate your article on feminists for life. As a young nurse, feminist, and Pro-lifer, I'm tired of being categorized unfairly. It is true that abortions hurt women, even though it may be politically incorrect to state that, and I'm glad to see an honest unbiased article. True feminism advocates holistic care for women, and should seek to discourage anything (i.e. abortion) that harms women.
--msr
11/18

Sorry, I was unaware of your numerous requests, otherwise I would have given this more appropriate explanation: Did someone specifically say they "refused" to respond? If not, I'm sure they declined an interview because they are swamped right now, not because they refuse. Esp. since the news that Jane Roberts has been involved with FFL came out, the requests by the media have been overwhelming. FFL is a rapidly growing organization that is stretched very thin right now -- happily, since it means the word is getting out -- but there simply are not enough people on staff right now who have been authorized to act as an official spokesperson to respond to the avalanche of media requests. (You have to admit, the number of media outlets itself is growing exponentially and it's very difficult to accomodate all requests.) I felt I was pushing the barrier when I came upon your article and wrote a reply, sounding like an official response. Believe me, I know these women are hard to get ahold of. I have been a member for 20 years, I have known the president for over a decade, I am slated to become an official spokesperson (they realize it's a problem and are looking to remedy it, but even this program has been pushed back and back bec of how busy everyone is!) and even *I* couldn't get ahold of her in the past couple of days for an answer to a question. Please do not jump to conclusions -- FFL has nothing to hide. We have worked side by side several times with prochoice groups, as you mentioned. To suggest that we are "non-cooperative" is simply unfair. Please excuse the "growing pains" we are experiencing. Thanks again.
--cm
11/17

Thank you for your response. Just to clarify, Lynn Harris and I both contacted FFL several times to request an interview with the president *or with any other member of the organization who could express FFL's point of view*. We asked for just fifteen minutes of phone time, at any time of the day or night, with any FFL representative, and we submitted the requests weeks in advance of our Reproductive Rights issue. So "on the road for speaking engagements and pregnancy resource forums" is not a valid excuse for FFL's non-co-operation. FFL refused, point blank, to help us represent their side of the story. - Ada Calhoun, Nerve Editor
--AC
11/17

A few points from an FFL member -- this may be long, but I will humbly try to step in for the president who I'm guessing was unable to respond to your requests for an interview because I happen to know she is on the road for speaking engagements and pregnancy resource forums. All the problems you seem to have with us calling ourselves feminists confuses me when you remember that traditional feminism is based on the philosophy that feminism embraces the basic rights of all without exception, and rejects the use of violence to dominate, control, or destroy anyone. With this in mind, I'll address some of your problems. We are opposed to abortion under any circumstances because there is always a better, nonviolent solution than abortion. We oppose it in cases of rape and incest because we refuse to discriminate against the child on the basis of her parentage; we believe that pregnancy is not a punishment or anything to be ashamed of (and it's time we stopped treating pregnancies that result from rape or incest as such); that a victim of assault is entitled to all the care -- physical, mental, emotional, financial, etc -- that she needs, but an abortion would be a violent answer to a violent act that often let's the rapist off the hook. We oppose abortion in cases of sever birth defects based on non-discrimination and the belief that every person deserves the chance to have the best life possible and no one, in the womb or out, is "better off dead." We oppose abortion in the "save-the-life-of-the-mother" concept because there is *always* another medical option. Sadly, the unborn child does not always survive the other medical treatments, but the mother always can survive without resorting to abortion. You stated that it seems we believe parenting is the "only choice." While we do believe that women(and men)*become* parents as soon as a pregnancy begins, and will always *be* parents no matter what the outcome, I believe you were suggesting that we think that all women should raise the children they bear. The glaring omission in your article was the word "adoption." FFL strongly advocates the empowering choice of adoption, recognizing that there are 2 million couples *currently* who have met the standards of agencies and are awaiting to become adoptive parents. (And a great number of them will also not discriminate on the basis of parentage or disabilities and are hoping to adopt more than one child.) As to the issue of women who would die from illegal abortions if abortion was outlawed -- There are countless illegal abortions that happen today. No matter what the number, it is a travesty. But the answer is not keeping it legal, because that does not keep it safe. There is no such thing as a "safe abortion." Legal or illegal, abortion does not rectify the reasons that women in desperation resort to abortion. An abortion does not put food on the table, stop a man from beating her, or give her an education or job skills. After an abortion, her world is at best the same, at worst made a lot less desirable from medical complications. As long as prochoice women continue to scream "It's our body, it's our choice!" they will continue to hear "Oh, yeah? Then it's *your* problem!" Until we stand up and demand that the world recognize that women have children and deserve all the necessary social structures to support that fact -- that society should change to meet the needs of women, and that women shouldn't change to fit into the predominantly patriarchal society that still exists today -- women will never be treated as equals. Why do we settle for less? Women deserve better. Thank you for this chance to respond.
--cm
11/17

I find it interesting that the author "complains" that FFL is like your great-grandmother's feminism and likens its members to early feminists like Susan B. Anthony. Without Anthony and the feminists of our great-grandmother's time, where would feminists be today?
--P.M.
11/17

The fact that not all women want to give birth has indeed occurred to many pro-life feminists. You mention those who oppose some types of birth control, but, as is usual with pro-choice scare stories, neglect to admit that many people who oppose abortion have no problem whatsoever with birth control. We are fully aware that birth control prevents abortion and is not intended to cause it. If women were truly respected and equal, they would not unintentionally become pregnant in the first place. Thus eliminating the need for abortion. This is what most pro-life feminists are working towards--perfected birth control, as well as support for those who choose to become mothers. But isn't it so much easier to pretend that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid? Keep doing that. You're no better than Jerry Falwell.
--afh
11/16

I am not inclined to defend FFL, however, I thought it should be pointed out that "non-abortifacient contraception" is not a contradiction in terms. In fact, most of us would not consider *any* form of contraception an abortifacient (i.e., a drug or procedure that causes abortion) - thereby making it more like a tautology. In the context of FFL, as with many more conservative groups, the locution is probably intended to distinguish hormonal contraception (which, in some rare circumstances may prevent the proper implantation of a fertilized egg) from condoms, etc.
--DHL
11/15

Dear ESB, I think one way people think of abortificant as meaning birth-preventing, in which case the way Lynn had it is right - no method of birth control is non-baby-preventing, but the literal meaning of abortificant, you're right, is abortion-causing, which does not apply to the barrier methods you mention. So we took out the line. Thank you for reading so carefully!
--Ada
11/14

Fantastic article. I would never have heard of this group, and become aware of the different viewpoints apparently held by many women. I would never force my pro-choice opinion on anyone else, nor would I force my future children on anyone else (except my mother). I can only hope that my body will remain just that. Mine.
--VS
11/14

I am a pro-choice feminist, and it's hard to fight the good fight when people who are avowedly on our side make mistakes this one: "(For those of you following along at home, "non-abortifacient contraception" is a contradiction in terms.)" This is patently untrue. Not all contraceptive methods are abortifacients. In fact most, by which I mean condoms, spermicides, diaphragms, and a host of other RELIABLE METHODS have absolutely nothing to do with abortion. They function by preventing the sperm from reaching the egg, and thereby preventing fertilization. There is no fetus. There is not even a fertilized egg. Ergo, there is emphatically no abortion. I'd really like to see a retraction or correction, as the assertion she makes is completely untrue as well as damaging to the cause she purportedly supports.
--ESB
11/14

Thank you so much for your article on FFL. My former roommate was an anti-choice activist who actively taught Catholic teens about sex-ed (i.e. sex is bad) and enthusiastic FFL member. She scares me. They scare me. Thanks for getting the word out there.
--jl
11/14

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