DISPATCHES

Reader Feedback on "The Invisible Men"

Thanks for your article on the difficulties of being bisexual. I'm a bi female in an open relationship with a bi male, and it's tricky. So many women have sex with other women for the benefit of their boyfriends that it seems to many that that's what I do. Not so. Also, trying to get involved with the gay-straight alliance at school (a private, Jesuit university) has proved impossible: the gays dislike bisexuals, and lesbians in particular can be very nasty to bi girls. It's so frustrating! Thanks much for writing about us. Bisexuals are ignored too often.
--JS
07/11

Profound article. Very good read, and it has reassured me.
--LB
07/08

it is kind of strange (sad) that the author felt it necesssary to deny being bi himself in the bio
--lh
07/05

I think I saw one other person who saw what I saw in this article. I did enjoy it quite a bit, it brought forth a lot of the issues I face every day, but I don't think that bi women are accepted as much as the article makes it seem. When I first came out I said that I was bi. This was in high school, and everyones reaction was 'she'll come around.' They either meant 'she'll be straight one day' or 'she'll be gay one day.' I got super involved in activism, and I ran a GSA. I got to college, still claiming bisexuality, and still getting the same reactions. I was introduced to a new term, queer, and I found that I identify more with that. While I am attracted to males and females, I am, more than anything, attracted to gayness. This makes lesbian relationships easier but the problem... I still like guys. The straight people I know are fine with the queer identity, the gay people I know are more ok with queer than bi, but they still think I just like girls. I face much more discrimination from the gay community than I do the straight community, which is nuts to me. I will be active in the queer community for the rest of my life, and I think that for the rest of my life I will be fighting the internal discrimination that forces many people just like me into a label that doesn't really fit them.
--CHS
07/05

I am a 49 year old bi artist who used to be active in politics. The main thing I have learned in my 30 some years of activism is that some things are much easier in theory than in practice and I believe bisexuality is one of them. For one thing, the potential complications are twice as numerous. The lesbians hate you, the straight men view you as "ew la la," the straight women think you're coming on to them and the invisible bi man, well... Don't get me wrong, I love men. I was practically thrown out of the Women's Movement for loving them TOO much but the invisible bi man, well ... I hope I find a better one someday. Vicki Moore
--VM
07/05

hey man good article and reminder that sexuality (as any identity facet) is fluid, if sometimes stagnant for folks ;-) um, what's the five-point test?? peace
--djb
07/04

Just wanted to speak up as another woman who finds bisexuality in men a turn-on, not turn-off. I love to hear a man tell me about his gay experiences, and what he appreciates about other men's bodies. I only wish I had an easier time finding more bi men to date.
--TS
07/04

Being married and bi myself. I have seen some of the things mentioned in the artical, and have even experianced some of the predudice. Also being a swinger in my 40's, i have seen a lot of changes taking place over the years. Though finding another couple where both are bi and compatible with both of us, is proving to be simialer to the quest for the holy grail.
--FAP
07/04

What an excellent article. My husband is bisexual. He came out as gay in high school, dated men for a while, and then fell in love with a woman. He lost far more friends when he started dating women than when he started dating men. It's sad, but I sometimes feel like he's done a disservice to the gay community. His mother, homophobic from the start, is thoroughly convinced of that "homosexuality is just a phase" bullshit. If only she knew what we sometimes get up to. If only she read our Nerve Personals profile. We invited her step-grandchildren to the pride parade with us and she looked at us like we were crazy and said "you still go to that?" I will admit that some of the fears of gay men dating bi men might have some basis. My husband wants children, in fact, he plans on becoming a full-time father in a few years. And it's far easier for a hetero couple to do that than two men. I recently had a long online conversation with a woman, living pretty mainstream, who's husband had just come out to her as bi. She was devastated. She was afraid she wasn't satisfying him, that he was not going to be happy if he wasn't simultaneously involved with a woman and a man. I told her that many men are attracted to both blondes and brunettes, but it doesn't mean they require both. Many commit to just one person, just one gender. I think one of the biggest misconceptions people have is that a bisexual person can never commit to a relationship. Or, if they do, they are no longer bisexual. I was surprised to read that many women don't like to talk about attractive men with their partners. I love that aspect of my relationship. "Hey, sweetie, do you think he's cute?" It's great, it's fun. I myself am bisexual only in that "hey, I'm a chick, other chicks are hot, want a threesome?" socially-acceptable kind of way, so we discuss hot girls too. Interestingly, my hubby and I usually agree on which men are attractive but often disagree about women.
--tdr
07/04

Hey Carl - Wonderful, well-written article! Bravo! But you left out yet ANOTHER form of discrimination against bi males: The women I have dated are not only threatened because they fear "instability" or promiscuity but because men who sleep with men (particularly in a male-dominated, patriarchal society) throw the hetero "attraction dynamics" out of whack. In other words, many straight women actually have trouble being aroused by/attracted to a man who might be turned on by other men. Conversely, men are hardly ever threatened by a girlfriend who might fancy other women. This is a sad-but-true double standard that I have discovered first-hand. Best, Frank Santopadre (bi, 40-ish writer) Monkeyman261@aol.com
--fs
07/04

I'm a woman and I say, bring on the (out) bi men! I've been dating bi men for about eight years now, and my only complaint is a societal bias that makes some of my favourite love/lust objects so hard to find, cause they're hiding from everyone else's prejudices.
--JLB
07/04

For a long time, I have preferred the guys I date to be bi, although the reason why is nebulous, at best. Partly it's because I'm a bi female, and I feel like a bi guy "knows how I feel" to some extent, and that it's just another thing to have in common. I also feel that they are more open in myriad different ways. But mostly, I just think it's hot as fuck, and I deeply enjoy hearing some naughty stories about boys playing with boys, just like they like to hear about girl/girl playtime. Makes me feel like a different kind of outcast sometimes, as all of my female friends find this notion disgusting. Sort of a buzzkill. So I keep my dirty thoughts to myself, which is okay by me.
--cr
07/03

I'm a fag. Now, my favorite guys attraction-wise are bisexual, but it seems to turn out that water follows the path of least resistance and so do bisexuals--at some point, they join the happyland of heterosexual commitment. I don't blame them for copping out on homosexuality because it's supposedly so taboo, although that factors in plenty of cases; I more figure they abandon homosexuality because with a chick you get the grand world of cross-gender mystery (a guy never figures out a girl completely) as well as the chance at having kids. Cross-gender mystery is one of the great push-pull phenomena that so defines attraction, which has to be there for any love or sex that goes beyond mere bodies. The fact that straight dating isn't taboo may just be icing on the cake for the bisexual who goes back to chicks. So, I always feel a pang of contempt for bi guys complaining that gay guys ostracize them; it's only a pre-emptive defense, and hey--you may hate the decisionmaking process but we can't even fathom it! This is it, for us: make queer love work, die trying, or die alone. Still, I would never out a bisexual or actually hurt them as that poor guy in the article had happen to him. There's no excuse for that kind of cruelty. I just keep an eye on my heart so it doesn't break while I'm fucking them. I think it's worthwhile to keep bisexuals in my life even if I know there's not much chance of long-term. There's somethin' special about them there ol' bisexshals. But know this: if you are bi and you make a serious attempt at a relationship with another guy, I will buy you free drinks any time and anoint your adopted children with a million blessings. Don't doubt the worth of guy-love, because doubting it, like with any love, ruins it before you get it.
--an
07/03

i skipped lunch to read this article-it was that good. for me the most frustrating part is dealing with the double standard of bi females vs. bi males. if a girl with a steady boyfriend makes out with another girl, its cheers, hi-fives and applause all around. should a guy with a steady girlfriend even admit the attractiveness of another guy, he is immediately ostracized by people and friends of both sexes, and the whispering begins. i always cringed when a girlfriend of mine kissed anoither girl and then dismissed it as "just having fun." its like it was the cool thing to do for a while. had i ever acted on ANY of my desires to even simply flirt with an attractive guy, it would have been "relationship over you queer."
--ca
07/03

Thanks so much for the great article. I was actually very surprised to read about all that negativity over bi men. I am a straight woman who has dated straight men who have had sex with other men and also one full-on bi man. I never had any issues with it, and, if anything, found it a bit of a turn on. There was something about knowing that my man felt comfortable enough with himself and his body to just follow his intuition and do what felt right to him, rather than what society hands down that made me respect him deeply. I actually enjoyed scoping out guys together. It helped me understand him better, knowing what turned him on. I never worried that I would "lose him to a man." I just want to put it out there that some of us straight women actually wish there were more bi guys to choose from.
--jc
07/03

I'm a hormone-driven 16 year old and I also have had male-on-male sexual experiences. Growing up the thought of finding a man attractive never came to mind, but as times changed during the mid-90s I noticed same sex orientation was being tolerated more. During junior high, I'd maintane a crush on a girl that I'd love spending nights talking to, dreaming of, and having sexual fantasies while at the same time performing fellatio on my male-best friend. I think this article definitely points out the good point that same-sex sex has become more tolerable among society so I've decided to explore. I'd say I hate labels, but then that would put me into a whole other category that are despised by gays AND straights. I say go with what feels good there and then.
--AN
07/03

"It leaves open the possibility of polyamory, of endless variations of partners." This is what the world fears, and yet the polyamory community deals with it quite well, thankyou. And my god... to have love spread all over, to more than One Other... what joy! Perhaps the biggest phobia to overcome is the fear of more than two. Tackle that, and the world opens up.
--KAT
07/02

That was a much needed article. I was straight, then I kissed a girl and fell in love and I was gay. But, there have been times inbetween when I've thought of men and wondered if I was bi. It can be hard to determine b/c it's such a wide open category. I think the best conclusion is that sexuality is fluid--it can go left or go right depending on all kinds of influences and circumstances in your life. No one should have to feel badly for the way they feel or whether the person they feel like fucking at a particular time has a dick or a pussy--who cares! That's all it really boils down to. As having identified with the gay community for the past several years--the bi bias is definitely there, and it is such an incredible double standard. The Bi's have more right to bitch than anyone. The gays gush on about how it's not our faults on who we fall in love with etc., and it's not--but then to go hold bi's accountable--it's a sad thing that needs analysis in the gay community.
--
07/01

Thanks for putting out this great atricle. I "knew" that I was bisexual at the age of 15 after having my first sexual encounters with both a guy and a girl (seperately). For some reason it didn't really make any difference to me form the begining and of course I was just a ball of rageing hormones and ready to jump at anything. Throughout highschool I had a steady "fuck-buddy", but both of us continued to date and have sex with girls. After moving out on my own I got pretty caught up in the gay world (because there was no bisexual comminity) and quickly found that there was no place for a "bi" in the gay community, so I tried to pretend I was gay. After a year of two of this I just couldn't lie to myself anymore and completly removed myself fom anyone and anything gay and entered into my first long term relationship with a woman. Over the next 10 or so years I dated only women, with the exception of a few "one-nighters" with guys. Several years ago my 3-year relationship with a girl ended and since then I've been single and have had the most difficult time dating. Girls seem to very quickly decide I'm gay for all the typical reasons: I'm sensitive, I'm a nice guy and I have a flair for design. I never could figure out how being a nice, sensitive guy aoutmatically made you a "cock-sucker". I am very masculine and have none (that I'm aware) of the typical gay or feminine personality traits. On the other hand, I have tried dating a few guy's, but it just dosen't feel right for me to even think of any kind of a long term relationship with a man, so again those were just short encounters. At this point know that I want a woman in my life and I'm really over any thoughts of men, though fantasies will probably persist for the rest of my life.
--BSA
07/01

.... damn ... well done! Your statement "... But nobody likes a bisexual man. ..." is sooo true. Only a few women get turned on by it ... most get turned off because they are threatened or just plain don't like it. Bizexual men are have a huge stigma against them, while bisexual women are very accepted. Men are threatened by it, women are too or grossed out ... very sad. I guess I am bisexual because I had two encounters with men (though it was more for experimentation ... I really was sort of luke-warm in the turn-on department ... guess I like women better!) and while my best friend (who is a woman) was very turned on by the idea, I think this is the exception. Perhaps in 100 year, things will be different ... let's hope.
--EGM
07/01

I think what makes both straight and gay people nervous about bisexuality is that it highlights that our sexuality is ultimately performative, and not essentially based in any single, stable or cohesive subjectivity. I identify as a great big fag, but, I have found myself attracted to a woman!? This says to me that the terms "gay" and "straight" are (wait for it) limiting. What it is really about (and what it has been about since we stopped thinking of homosexual acts as sin or pathology and began to think of them as the defining acts of subjectivies) is a mediation of what culturally available subject position you feel comfortable �in� at any particular time in your life.
--PH
07/01

Great Article! I'm a huge fan of Marjorie Garber's "Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life" which anyone reading this article and this feedback MUST read. I think the important point about societal pressure- either homophobic or bi-phobic or straight-phobic, is that these pressures makes it difficult for people to understand the complexities of their own desire. But understanding these complexities is what makes LOVE possible. Because isn't that what we are all really looking for? As a woman, I took years to admit that I was bisexual. All my straight friends thought I was straight, all my gay friends thought I was lesbian, but objectively I was celibate. I thought I was confused, and that I was fighting against the entire lesbian community whenever I was turned on by a man. What I was really confused about was love and intimacy, not sexual orientation. What I finally realized is that bisexuality is the only thing that makes sense to me! Now the really interesting challenge is getting inside of that- realizing that yes, on one hand, the experience of being with a man or a woman is both the same, and significantly different. And instead of experiencing that difference as a litmus test for my 'real' identity- I'm able to experience it as a moment in time spent exploring with another human. Beautiful! I tease my gay friends these days and try to get them to admit that they are bisexual. If I push hard enough they tell me of course, they could be/are turned on by the opposite sex. Bisexuality scares the shit out of people- not only because of vague political concepts around privilege and power... but because it raises very deep questions about sexual energy and intimacy that we barely have language for. Jung is good on that, so is Garber. Enjoy!
--SW
07/01

why do I HAVE to accept anything? if I think homosexuality is unnatural, that's my right. the people who are oppressed are the ones who voice that opinion.
--ch
07/01

I disagree that there's a double standard for bi women and bi men. Yes, the straight male girl-on-girl fantasy is out there. But ask the guy how he'd feel if she's actually casually dating a woman at the same time she's dating a man... I think you'll hear a different story. I've also spent a fair amount of time in the lesbian community, and you certainly hear the same "you'll leave me for a man" message. Just because it's a media fashion or hip in some communities doesn't mean the phobic beliefs aren't still there. A bit of girl experience is far different than bringing her home to meet mom.
---sj
07/01

I really enjoyed this article immensely. I believe that bisexuality is probably more regular that it seems, it's just sub-surface because people need polarities to feel comfortable. Fence sitting has always been viewed as non-commital or transitory. Human animals are transitory creatures, not static and unchanging (okay, well maybe some are unchanging). I think it is natural and not something to fear or loathe when one experiences feeling for another person of the same sex/gender identification. This article is wonderful to read and well written. Thanks!
--CG
07/01

Yup - it's all true. Good article. Depressing too. Made me realise that one of the reasons i've been single for so long is that gay guys think i'm straight and straight girls think i'm gay. sigh :-) But as for the point that "it's exactly the same" i'd have to disagree. I used to think that but when it comes down to it, i find being held by a man is very different to holding a woman, for example, or the other way round, or, er, something. see, i'm not confused at all :-) no really - i just love both those things in and of themselves because they just are, and they reveal different truths, but i suppose it's ultimately the same truth, so maybe the comment was right after all. phew. :-/
--SL
07/01

It's about time someone wrote an article like this! I am so sick to death of the gender double-standard that exists toward bisexuality. As a male feminist I recognize that most gender double-standards tend to benefit MALES however this is a case where the reverse is true. As a bisexual male I am tired of having my sexuality devalued by both straight AND gay people. And mainstream culture is openly HOSTILE towards male bisexuality. I think the biggest problem stems from straight men who feel threatened by bisexual men (for whatever reason). I think the author is correct that males tend to be MUCH more homophobic than females. Another factor not mentioned by the author which contributes to biphobia (towards both sexes) is that much of mainstream society has accepted the idea that homosexuals "can't help it, they're born that way." But bisexuals are ATTRACTED to members of the opposite sex but CHOOSE to date members of the same sex as well. Blaphemy! Americans need to loose the "either/or" attitude that seems to be so ingrained in our culture.
--JAB
07/01

thanks...I needed that. and as a bi guy, I think everyone else could use a little enlightenment, as well.
--etc
07/01

a standard joke about bisexuality in the heartland is " i'm buysexual, every bit of sex i get, i have to buy it." this, by the way is probably the worst type of sex that you can get, enough to make a guy throw up, at least in my case.
--nfw
07/01

That I'm the first person to send feedback attests to the unattractiveness of the subject and the loneliness bisexual guys feel... At least if you're gay or straight you're on a team. If you're bi it's treated as a liminal phase, a sign of confusion (if you're a bi girl, there's almost no stigma attached- it's even sexy, expected). But as so well stated in another article, confusion is the only honest repsonse to sexuality-and in that sense bisexuals are just being honest.
--DK
07/01

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