PERSONAL ESSAYS

Reader Feedback on "Baby Love"

I really enjoyed reading this, it was so honest and interesting and talked about things that I have never heard anybody have the guts to talk about before. Thank you.
--CG
09/07

This is a beatifully written article. Cristin did nothing wrong. she did not abuse her baby. I know all you right wing hypacrites want to think your above humanity, but sadly you're not. Cristen was well aware of not crossing her boundaries and told a beautiful heartwarming story, about motherhood.Get over yourselves and thank-you Christen for sharing something so personal.
--mc
06/26

Hello, I wrote a response to this article on my blog, www.majorgeneralist.com. I said that people like Christen Clifford are being open about the most difficult aspects of becoming a parent, and I believe she should be commended. This kind of article is getting to the core of what it means to be human, and we are lucky to live in a day and age when we can participate in this kind of social dialog. It can only make us feel better about who we are as people, and as a result, presumably become better parents.
--mg
04/28

Pretty wild and bold. It's scary to talk about sexuality in relation to children, in any way, given the culture of abuse we live in and the increased awareness of it. Its so easy to be frightened by things I feel and wonder if they're normal or just another manifestation of my psychosis. It's really good to hear another person say those things, and out loud for us all to hear! Not that it makes it okay, its just that there are more people out there who have felt similar things they couldn't explain.
--km
09/24

I was absolutely riveted by Christen Clifford's article "Baby Love". I think it is incredibly brave and generous of her to share her experience with such honesty, intelligence, wit and compassion. I feel she has done a great service to women and men by making her experience available and I am filled with admiration for her as a writer and human.
--AP
04/25

is child abuse defined by the experience of "perpetrator" or the experience of the "abused" ? if the child's experience is not changed, what makes it abuse? Good God. Are you serious? Just because her child's experience with nursing wasn't "changed" doesn't make it any less abusive. What about severely retarded children who are raped? Is it OK for them to be abused because they aren't fully aware of what is going on?
--EVE
04/25

The abuse isn't just the act but telling the world about it in a forum that the child or his future friend or tormenters might find in the future. Would YOU want to know that one of your parents used you as a masturbatory aid?
--LMF
04/25

is child abuse defined by the experience of "perpetrator" or the experience of the "abused" ? if the child's experience is not changed, what makes it abuse? there are too many real problems in the world for you to be throwing around that phrase in this context. read the comments below from the beginning -- your response is shrill and outside the norm.
--stj
04/25

Maybe she wanted to be "caught". Answering the door with a vibrator in hand instead of her keys seems to have been her way of forcing herself to stop her unusual/abusive behavior. I don't think it was an accident.
--
04/25

Nu-uh. She was not simply "getting aroused by breastfeeding." One of her creep-o-riffic pals "turned" her onto the idea of masturbating while nursing. "�I didn't want to miss out. I went home, got out my mini-massager and settled into the Glider rocking chair with Felix, then a month and a half old, at my breast." Now, I am pretty sure "What To Expect The First Year" addresses that some women get aroused while breastfeeding. This is probably normal (All though it has never happened to me, I'm too busy getting my daughter to latch on properly and contemplating the 92627272 piles of laundry I have to do).. I don't think it's normal for a mother to use her infant child as added stimulation to masturbating. WHICH IS WHAT THE AUTHOR DID. You should probably reread the article. Or don't, there are many more interesting things in the world to read. Now, as far as "thought crime" and women who use daycare are concerned, I'm not sure that has anything to do with Mrs. Clifford's article, unless you want to add that Felix would be better off in daycare 24/7, because he has a much better chance of NOT being molested under the care of someone other than his mother.
--EVE
04/25

eve, i think you are being a litle melodramatic. child abuse? sexually stimulating a child is child abuse; a mother getting aroused during breast feeding is not. She may be guilty of a thought crime, but if we start locking people up for errant thoughts there will not be many people left on the street. Think of all the mothers who hire 24/7 nannies and deny their children the basic affection they require -- that all too normal parenting behavior deserves your ALL CAPS wrath more than the behavior described by the author.
--stj
04/24

By all means "ted," let's lighten up! It's just a confession about abusing her child! Nothing serious! And for those dear readers who don't find what Mrs. Clifford did/wrote about/confessed to "abusive", let's consider for a moment that it was Mr. Clifford who wrote the "article." (I'm just still having such a hard time understanding which Nerve editorial bozo found the piece fit for publication. Hey! I'm going to mail a piece of paper smeared with excrement to Nerve and I can get that published too!) Let's say that "Baby Love" was written by a father who became so aroused by the love of his child that he jerked off while holding him/her. What would be your reaction then? Because it happens every day, every minute, and IT IS CHILD ABUSE. Nah "ted," I'm not going to lighten up when I read something like this. I'm not going to suddenly decide that using your child as a sexual plaything is OK. Yes, "people are capable of bad things." And I, like most humans, feel a sense of anger and sadness when I read about "bad things" being committed against fellow humans, and animals, AND especially children. Felix didn't have a choice if he wanted to be enjoying his supper while his mother whipped out her vibrator and did her thing. And I think that sums up most of the article. Christen Clifford doesn't view, or treat, her child as a PERSON. And if she asks her son in 20 years if he was cool with her doing that, I'm pretty positive the answer will be no. Let's think about Mrs. Clifford writing that she wonders if it's "wrong to encourage him (Felix) to touch himself." If MY spouse attempts to get one of our children to touch themselves sexually, well, I don't think murder would be that too far from my mind. Having sexual feelings towards your children is NOT a normal reaction. It just isn't. Christen Clifford needs therapy. Felix will need therapy. Ken needs a divorce and full custody. And Nerve needs to stop publishing such stupid articles. C'mon! Would they have published an article about a man masturbating while holding his ten year old daughter?! No. But it's OK because Christen Clifford is a mother holding her infant son and that somehow isn't as offensive as the prior scenario. Abuse is abuse is abuse, even under the guise of all-consuming mommy love.
--EVE
04/23

it seems to me some people commenting below are not giving the author credit for being aware of the fact that some of responses to child approach crossing a line she doesn't want to cross. isn't this something that many homosapiens experience? people are capable of bad things, and its easy to pretend you could never do something you shouldn't do but more honest and interesting to address that moment. wars demonstrate that the vast majority of males are capable of killing others when instructed to do so as part of a herd. Sanctimonious "oh god that's awful" responses to any acknowledgment of human frailty and failure and yes, immaturity, will not help us better understand the human condition. in other words EVE and others below, lighten up. it is confessional, that's the point. if there is not something shameful about that which is confessed, it really isn't confession, is it?
--ted
04/22

oops, I misstyped, sorry. (I have a baby on my lap and am typing with one hand! :-) My e-dress is actually gilab1975@yahoo.com
--GB
04/22

Way to go, Eve! You said it like it is. There don't seem to be many sane people in this chatroom, or maybe they are sane but just don't have children and don't know what's normal. Re: the person who said "baby lust" is normal and I need to get over it, you are partially right: it is normal to feel an all-consuming love for your baby. That's what enables us to change their diapers, wake up four times a night when they're colicy, even sometimes pick their nose for them (who knew that this could be fun?) Things that would be gross and intolerable when it comes to other people's kids are just peachy when it comes to our own. And that's the way it should be. If we didn't love them in such an all-consuming way, how could we do this stuff? All-consuming mother love is necessary for the survival of the generations, I think. But using your baby as a masturbatory object?! That is, I would submit, a totally different thing. That is not about unconditional giving, or love of the baby at all. Actually it is about love of yourself--and to a ridiculous, sick degree. Someone asked if this is normal and commented that this made them not want to have children. If this essay makes you not want to have kids, then you don't realize how profoundly abnormal the author is (and perhaps you have your own issues too). I don't want to sound judgmental, but for the sake of the other commentators who are considering not having children based on this essay, I must say that the author is obviously extremely immature, and was not ready to bring a child into this world. Unfortunately for her baby, she did anyway. As far as writing is concerned, she is a good writer. But as far as the psychological dynamic of her family is concerned, if she doesn't get help soon, then I think she needs to seriously consider giving this baby up for adoption. Eve, if you would like to discuss this "offline" (or anyone else) please write to me at gilab@yahoo.com.
--GB
04/22

" I would never abuse my child, but I understand a little those who do." Maybe the problem with Mrs. Clifford's sex life with her husband has more to do with the fact that he is creeped out by her rather than the state of her post-childbirth vagina. "I want to be a model of erotic love for Felix to learn from." Ew. And ew again. As a mother of three, I have NO interest in being a model of erotic anything for my children. Is it healthy for them to witness my husband and I being in love with each other? Yes. But do I want them to view me as some sort of role-model for their future sexuality? No. And judging from this article, Christen Clifford has some obvious skeevy need to shove her sexuality down her infant son's tiny starfish throat, oblivious and uncaring to the fact that her son doesn't NEED or WANT to view her as an "erotic role model." The kid just wants to eat. Using nourishing your child with breastmilk as an added kink to your solo-sex-toy-sessions is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. As a prior feedback poster stated, I certainly hope young Felix doesn't stumble across this article when he's old enough to read, I sincerely doubt Nerve paid you enough for this child abuse confession disguised as hipster doofus smut lit to afford the future therapy bills. "In my mind, I can fuzzily see the progression from our innocent play to abuse." Not to worry, you've all ready crossed that line. That poor, poor baby.
--EVE
04/20

I just loved this piece... Honest, hilarious, completely revealing. I'm astounded to find (reading other comments here) that a few folks find CC's perspective sick or odd--everything she describes is utterly natural and even beautiful, if a little painful. Hell, if kids didn't go through all that Oedipal/Electra BS we would never become individuals!! Parents "lust" after their children--get over it! THANK YOU CC!
--ML
04/19

Thanks to Christen Clifford for telling it like it is. Great article.
--km
04/18

We are so "into" free expression we can't draw any lines anymore, but no, this is not normal. Let me be more specific: It IS normal to love your child in an all-consuming way; it is not normal to have no desire to protect their innocence, and to use them as an object for your sexual pleasure. That is very abnormal and yes, sick. (I speak as a new mother myself.) The author, to her credit, has a lot of self-awareness to realize that this is the mentality which leads to the abuse of children. She needs to get help, and I hope she does soon. Her relationship with her husband is the least of her problems, IMO.
--G.B.
04/18

Dear Christen, Many thanks for the honesty. I'm an old dude and a father and grandfather. All my life I've been a little confused about my place in a relationship with my former hot lover, then changed into "mommy." I know it's a little late, but I think I finally understand why she became what she became. I say it's late because she's been gone a long time (Virginia Slims), and my daughter is 47. Maybe I can help her with some of her demons, thanks to you.
--BML
04/17

Appears there are two camps of women here. Ones who become consumed by their babies and their partnerships/marriages suffer and probably end as a result. And ones who find a balance between romantic love and parental love. If you are scared of how a baby changes things, just ask yourself am I/is my partner balanced? Your yes or no answer to that question will also answer if you should have kids.
--
04/16

this was very depressing. i'm sorry, but it was. i left my husband when my daughter was 1 1/2. we had sex once after she was born, then never again. he totally fell apart. now she's 10, i have a boyfriend of 5 plus years, it's the best sex ever and i keep him separate from my kid. i don't have the energy to take care of him and her at the same time. motherhood, it turns out, is fulfilling and thankless at the same time. it's like after you've had your baby, you've kind of done your job genetically and the earth doesn't need you anymore.
--c
04/15

I thought this article was so perfect. I nursed my son and I felt all of the things she described. It's nice to know I'm not a wierdo.
--TR
04/15

how utterly exciting to read something that strips back all the crap and says "this is how it is". i started having babies at 22, and now, at 39, have 4. the two strongest and most changeable threads running through my life are 1) the intense physical and emotional passion i have for my children (especially, right now, for my 2 year old... omg, i could eat him alive!) and 2) my "mojo". just when i think my sexual self is but a ghost it starts to take shape and form and demands as much attention as my toddler. how beautiful to be able to write your way through it!
--jvc
04/15

hot diggity! it's about time the weird mommy-i-love-you sexual undertones were discussed. kudos! you should get a pulitzer if you expand to this 200+ pages.
--mw
04/15

You do realize that someday your kid is going to read this and be totally disgusted, right? For his sake, I hope it's not until he's past junior high. This article has the potential to make his life a living hell when he's a teenager. Also, re: "I knew that no one has sex for months after having a baby (except teenagers, my doctor told me)," your doctor is full of shit. Or an idiot.
--LMF
04/15

I love this essay. Gives new meaning to motherhood. Very very smart.
--tdf
04/15

I guess I could relate to this somewhat in regard to being caught up with the baby for while, though I only breast fed for 3 months. I guess my experience wasn't anywhere as extreme with recouperation and getting my sex life back. It was a new thing getting used to switching emotional gears from *mommy* to *sexpot*. I'd lay my son down for the night and end up having lots of time with my husband only to have trouble getting out of mommy mode to enjoy it like I used to. Believe me, this definitely passed after a few yrs! Our sex life is better than ever now, albeit pretty much confined to our locked bedroom unless he's at the grand parents, which is no big deal since I've made that room a comfy haven. My C-section healed quick and easy. I'm really greatful I went ahead and let them do it, since that gave them the time to make careful and precise cuts that resulted in only a small scar with dissolving stitches that is now practically invisible. I've seen emergency C's that resulted in long staple scars that were eyesores and left women immobile and took forever to heal...but for every one of those are probably twice as many who ended up like me. We had gentle sex 3 weeks after, and I was doing light workouts about 5 weeks after...which in retrospect was probably a bit early. Though I felt healed (and horny) at the time and didn't injure myself in any way, my uterus was probably still healing on the inside, so if I ever do it again I might allow myself a little more time. The biggest culprit was lack of sleep for a couple yrs, since I'd make the mistake of staying up late to finish chores or catch an extra hour or so of grown up time with my husband when my son was asleep, only to have to get up with him the next morning when my husband went to work, but all in all it was worth it to be at home with the baby and to have the grown up time when he was asleep. You can and do, with conscious effort, learn to fit a baby (and your at times seemingly all-consuming love for it) into your life without it being at the expense of your relationship if you really want to. There are as many different ways of experimenting this as there are people, so if anyone should be scared reading a tale like this, they should remind themselves that this is ONE person's experience, and their unique take on it based upon their own personality as much as anything else. For me, I healed fast with no cooch trauma, ended up with an even better sex drive than before, became closer to my husband (yes we went thru ups and downs and weird spells when I was hormonal mom of a baby), and have a beautiful and smart little boy that I can't imagine life without.
--JH
04/15

Your stark honesty is simply beautiful. Thank you from one mother to another.
--sdl
04/15

Incredible article... my son is now 8 and I recently divorced my husband. What we had never came back... I hope this is not the case for you. Anyway congratulations on a beautifully written, raw and moving peice of writing.
--
04/15

Dear Christen, THis is a sexy, sweet, provocative confession. Thank you for writing it. My husband and enjoying a renewal of that pre-children passion that's even better than the first time around... probably because we've earned it. Our kids are 4 and 8.
--co
04/15

This feels like a continuation of the work you were presenting for Snuffload... just as compelling and even more intimate. Brava Christen! - Jen C.
--JC
04/15

From the otherside as a now divorced father, the several subtexts that are the norm - no sex after kids, ? of love for one's partner, the enormous stress of newborns floats around with nearly no acknowledgement in the "real" world. Good to see it out of the bag even in this limited (somewhat child fearing reading audience evidenced by the feedback)world. The flip of that "natural" negative sex drive likely holds a proper place in the continuation of the species. More "love" and attention to the newborn does assure a higher likelihood our offspring make it to the difficult teenage years. Neurobiochemically this is now reasonably well studied as attachment induced with the neurotransmitter vasopressin (produced in the mom's brain during childbirth and enhanced with breastfeeding). So maybe to have less focus on "gettin' some" for awhile is biologically protective not abnormal or even "everthing's different now". The little sensual pleasures that can elicit that "guilt" are really much more natural than hedonistic especially with a baby that is all about feeling attached. Humans start out simple with enormous needs and desires and responses to love and caring. Where we end up is largely a learned response to what is presented to us from that basic need along with a few other influences. Having babies is great and natural and difficult and does force one to confront one's ability to love naturally. The difficulty of the strain of all that pushes the relationship with one's partner into a place equally unfamiliar that can easily result in "less" love as noticed here. One needs humor, patience and inner strength for that to grow with the child one brings in because if not many couples are done after 3-4 years (the average age of children in a divorce and my unfortunate but ok experience). Thanks, good story telling. How about a follow up in 2 years?
--gs
04/14

Outstanding article Christen. For a man reading this article you really showed us a clear image. I suppose that's why my friend forwarded it to me with the subject line reading: "The best form of contraceptive."
--ek
04/14

thank you cd. although this is not my exact experience, so much of it does resonate. you are brave and bold, and i appreciate knowing this is not so out there as i thought. only wish there were ways to make the transition easier. your essay will help educate. bless you,
--js
04/14

Terrific article. It's amusing that Salon and Nerve both published articles on baby-love this week, even sharing a description -starfish hands. But this one (I gave away my opinion on the other, I guess) is so crazily brave and sad. Not to bring myself into it, but here I go- it's true that what she describes is much of my hesitation about having a child. I've told my husband that if I- should I say we?- had a baby, I'd probably wind up entirely devoting myself to him or her. Yes, I'm afraid of pain, I'm poor, and I never played much with dolls, but the thought of bringing a person into existence whom you are doomed to love above everything else is more than sobering.
--mb
04/14

yes, it does resonate with me, I have a son who is 9, and I'm here to tell you I could relate to the whole article, (except I was luckier with childbirth, I was able to do it mostly naturally with a midwife). I was as horny as I'd ever been up to the birth, then it took a couple of years for my libido to come back. I remember siting nursing my son and commenting to hubby that it was like having rough sex with a lover. You do gradually separate, and your body becomes your own again, even though it can be yanked from you in a moment, (when my son had emergency surgery when he was 5, I was pulled right back in 24/7) But I'm also here to tell you that I spent the last three years having the best sex of my life, with my husband and others, and don't think I could have gotten here without having been there. To the people who were turned off by the intensity of the experience she describes and see this as another reason they don't want kids, there's all different kinds of ways to experiency birth and infancy, and the way you live now will inform how you do it. If your mind set is so self-involved and fearful, then it's best not to be a parent, the world will be better off.
--ab
04/14

I really appreciated this article as I have a 15month old at home and while I'm the dad and work long hours etc...My wife is a breast feeding yoga mom and this article felt more familiar, more real, than anything else I've read in a loong time. So thank you for making me feel like I'm not alone, that WE'RE not alone because often, the intimate stuff, the stuff between the lines, never gets spoken of.
--JWCM
04/14

WOW. This is intense! Thanks for managing to be being so candid while laying yourself bare, posing some valuable questions and being brave enough to share them with others not just ask them of yourself. This is a really good piece of writing.
--EGP
04/14

I LOVED this article! I 've met this cool mom/author and her beautiful baby and I know she is doing something right, eventhough it can, at all the oddest times, feels awkward and "wrong". My little boy is 18 months and it is some mad, crazy love, and dare i say lust between us! I can not stop thinking about him, the way he feels, the way he touches me, the way he smells, the way he laughs, the way we fall asleep always touching each other somewhere, always connected. He is my man. Our relationship almost reminds me of my first love, so innocent, so exploratory, and so all consuming. We could not stand to be apart. I know this is just for now and like you said, it will all change, but I am revelling in our "honeymoon" period. It rips my heart wide open to think of any harm happening to my son. My pussy didn"t get ripped open (sorry to hear about all those stitches - ouch!) but a c-section knocked me on my ass and made mobility a real pain (pun intended) for weeks afterwards when i just wanted to get out of my bed by myself and walk around the apt with my new LOVE and i couldn't. It seems like all the things, the fucking, the loving, the return to our "old" selves that we can no longer do are worth the price of admission into the coolest club I've ever wanted to join, that of being a hip, loving, crazy, caring, neurotic Mom (redundant i know). Learning to give ourselves time to adjust to changes is the hardest part in a society and (pre-baby) mindset built around instant gratification. Before whatever or whomever I wanted to "get" I got, just by reaching out touching,charming, connecting,banging. Like a spoiled child my world was my playground and I had all the toys and playmates i could want. Now my world, my body is my baby's playground, not my lover's, not mine. I forked over some amount of autonomy because he really does come before me : nature's way of maternal instinct and survival. I am a proud mamma lion and my cub's well-being is my responsibility. When sex is your forum, your expression, your juice for so long, a kid throws all that outta whack and sets it back on a differnt track. i appreciate the new stance i have. i am no longer a sex mongrel. I am a goddess of milk and mayhem. I crave intimacy, not anonaminty. Everyday is something new to learn and to teach. My fiance is sexier to me now as a father than he was as a lover. All you women who are freaked out to have a kid (by this article?!) perhaps shouldn't, but realize kids make you a wilder, calmer, crazier, version of your old tired selfish self and that in the end you become sexier because you now know life isn't all about you and how you look or how you appear .There's room enough in your heart for two very important people: you and your kid. Childbirth quite literally and figuratively opens you up and stretches you beyond your limits. You become a bigger person, full of bigger questions and sillier answers. Sex becomes something that now you have to reinvent, to reinvestigate - it's fun, it's frustrating just like (god i hate this word) "mommyhood"! You wrote a great article about all of it, the funny, the nasty, the sad and the real. Bravo! xoxo
--DP
04/14

loved this essay. and i find it interesting that so many people responding here are quick to defend what kinds of mothers they are or aren't or want to be. as usual, the piece has nothing to do with them. as a first-person piece, this has real resonance about the incredible ups and downs the narrator experiences.
--cla
04/13

I really enjoyed this story. It was honest and erotic too. Would love to be on your mailing list . Great job. I'm a lesbian but I still identified with the feelings of having a third person in your relationsip. My ex girlfriend (12 year marriage, just ended) often felt like there was a third person in our lives. It was my career. I know that doesn't compare to a human being, but we were also trying to "get pregnant" and during that time I experienced what a guy must go through because I became turned off sexually to her while she was going through numerous doctor's appointments w/ inseminations, etc. Very interesting..... !
--JB
04/13

I have realized in the past few years that I have never read or heard or seen anything positive about childbith ever. It all sounds horrible and life-depeleting and depressing and a total ravaging of your self, appearance, and lifestyle. The only thing that people say is "but it's so rewarding". How? You get this shit and then you get an asshole teenager who hates you and is out having all the fun you wish you were still having and then goes off to live the life you wish you could've lived but didn't because you had kids. Something is seriously wrong here. Having children should be, as I see it, a positive thing as it's, you know, uh, the continuation of the species, but somehow things have gotten fucked up and now I, as well as most of the people my age, never ever want to have children ever. I never even wanted to play with baby dolls when I was little, I was already disgusted by it. This essay is yet another assurance of birth and motherhood's horrific place in society these days. I liked it, but sometimes I wonder where the positive stuff is.
--AB
04/13

Definitely out there!! The physical closeness is nature doing its thing. Breastfeeding ... Zing Zing!! for mom and baby. Its connection. And all parents love their babies with the intenseness you describe, ... or they should anyway. But it is a different love. You're confusing a physical touch with human connection. You had connection with your husband, or did you? That might be the issue.
--PJC
04/13

This makes me never want to have kids ever.
--Sara
04/13

As a divorced father of two I found this profoundly depressing. Mother suggest she is useless as a mother, but her husband feels likewise. Both are wrong. Children grow and need liberation from their parents. What they want is for their parents to be happy and fulfilled apart from them so that they can be who they are as well. Let us not burden our children with the weight of our frustrations. Instead, be who you are, love whom you love and let your children free.
--tl
04/12

Hmmm. If even a third of that is common, I guess it crystallizes why I'm more than a little afraid of having kids. Oh, in the 4th sentence from the end, it should be "...where that leaves Ken and _me._" Not "...Ken and I." Editors? Hello?
--
04/12

> Maybe I'm an odd momma out, but I don't relate to this at all. I find it very, very sad. What a blessing that my husband and I love each other more after three kids in fifteen months and the sex has been better now that it was pre-kids.
--SDW
04/12

a wonderful essay. --fellow nerve writer
--
04/12

I relate completely. I didn't even know all these thoughts and feelings that were going on between me and baby and dad until you expressed them. Thank you. I think things will work out fine between you and Ken. Nature thrust you into where you are now, and when your work is done, it will suck back out of you and into some other bewildered new mom, and you will be left deflated and alone and yourself and hopeful (My baby's a little older than yours). I wish you all the joy and luck!
--lcc
04/12

p.s. does this resonate w/ other mothers? is this more normal than i realize?
--ted
04/12

wow. a few nice descriptions -- nice one of the child ravenously breast feeding, nice close. the rest is raw and interesting and somewhere between boldly honest and a little freaky.
--ted
04/12

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