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Reader Feedback on "Miss Information"

Hi Miss Information - I was particularly interested in the letter from "Shallow and Sorry" who had lost attraction for his girlfriend after she gained 20 pounds. You asked for feedback about your answer so here it is: I'm a Life Coach dealing specifically with women and weight, diet and exercise issues. "Shallow and Sorry" describes his girlfriend going from an unhealthy life-style to a healthy one and in the process she gained weight. Could it be that she was unnaturally thin to start with? Don't jump to the conclusion that gaining 20 pounds is a bad thing. 20 pounds isn't an outlandish amount of weight for anyone to gain. "Shallow and Sorry" should look at his own shit. The current standard for beauty is culturally determined and he can accept it without question or he can decide to broaden his view. He could also rent "Shallow Hal" and watch it with his girlfriend.
--JJ
04/27

Bad approach. Really bad, in fact. Coming from someone who has never experience issues with weight, or the emotional disturbances thereof, I am not a friend to your advice. Homeslice needs to give it a little more time and come up with some way to deal with the "extra 20". It's not like she ballooned into a whale, she gained some weight through necessary lifestyle changes. If she continues to gain weight, an appropriate conversation might be had at that point, and it should center around her health not his desire. If he does approach her with the news that she's fat and he can't hang, this is probably going to determine a lot of undermining issues in their future relationship such as self- confidence. What if he gained 20 lbs? And what if his new, stressful job is causing a little un-deserved negative attention on his girlfriend? Anyways.
--MC
04/25

My ex-husband was fond of pointing out all my imperfections in the name of honesty and after a few years of losing weight and losing hair because of stress, I finally said to hell with it and left him. My new husband loves every inch and every pound of me, and he's been nothing but positive. Before my husband I didn't think I was into fuzzy eyebrows and chests and bellies, but they are attributes of his that I absolutely love now. As for twenty pounds, well, my visual appearance seems to shift up and down 8-10 pounds every cycle. My husband loves it though, because I get swollen boobs to go with the swollen belly. :) Anyway, yeah, not the greatest advice this go-round, but I think all this feedback more than covered the bases. If a person is completely turned off by a gain of twenty pounds, caused by their own positive encouragement to quit cigarettes, they need to either get over themselves or move on.
--TW
04/25

I find that things that seem unattractive in theory are a lot easier to love when they're attached to someone you love. I wasn't so into hairy chests before my husband - now they remind me of the hot sex we've had. I used to pull away when he'd get near my stretch marks, but he's caressed my hips enough times while face-down between my legs that it's a part of my body that neither of us fears anymore. Create hot memories with your partner's changed body and you can add tummies and jiggling thighs to your list of turn-ons.
--SA
04/23

Hey y'all, it's Miss Info again. This isn't really supposed to be my space here, I've already had my say in the column. So I'll just say a few things really quick and then get the fuck out: 1. I didn't realize that Shallow & Sorry was female when I answered her question. Interesting twist, right? S&S, sorry for not addressing. 2. Part of what motivated my advice was how irritating it is (to me, at least) to have a partner drop little hints here, little hints there about the elephant in the room. It strikes me as chickenshit passive aggressive and implies that I'm: a. Too stupid to realize what they're trying to do, and B. Too fragile to be able to take any criticism, no matter how sensitive or subtle. Two things that should have been acknowledged but weren't - partly because my readers are smarter than me, partly because there wasn't enough space in the column - 1. the weight gain that comes from quitting/cutting down on smoking, 2. the general decline in attraction that is normal for any long term relationship. OK, that's all I have to say. I'm really loving all the discussion. All you guys that are commenting, please remember that if you have any questions you'd like answered in the column, send 'em to erin@nerve.com. I can always use more letters (creative hate mail, as well).
--EB
04/21

Erin's struck out twice here (maybe it's the advertising job messing with her head?). I've nothing to add on the weight gain issue, which the commentors below have nailed. But for Superficial or Scared, don't cock tease this guy. It's not fair for you to "experiment" on someone's emotions. Anyway, what wrong with having him as a friend? Do you have reason to believe he's romantically interested in you? I have great, platonic female friends whom I treasure. If the sexual attraction thing isn't there, why give up the intellectual and emotional attraction that can turn him into one of your best friends?
--REM
04/21

S&S has two of the answers at her fingertips: her new job stress and cooking. new job stress is automatic and it needs time to pass. Cooking: if S&S does the cooking, maybe she needs to pay attention to what she is cooking, i.e. skip the pasta pig outs. Also agree with others that the heart-to love talk is a recipe for failure.
--lf
04/21

Sex drive fluctuates. Don't blame a natural dip in libido on her weight gain. Or, if you do, don't tell her about it.
--GW
04/20

It's not just the weight. You've got other stuff going on.
--eb
04/20

Ooh, sorry, just read more of the comments and realized that both halves of the couple in question are female. Sorry to be hetero-normative, but the rest still holds.
--A.R.
04/20

Regarding "Shallow and Sorry," the dude is to be commended for trying to honestly and maturely deal with a difficult situation. That said, if a man initiated that conversation with me, I'd dump him without question. Why? It means he's not in it for the long haul. In the spectrum of a long-term relationship, a weight gain of 20 lbs. is pretty minor, and boyfriend's reaction casts doubt on his ability to deal with more important things that life will inevitably dish out, like babies, illness, bad haircuts or --gasp!-- aging.
--A.R.
04/20

it's not just weight gain.
--
04/20

it's just weight gain that gets all of us into trouble. weight loss can bring out nasty comments. and the people who have a sit-down over these things are usually happy to have you do whatever it is to fix yourself (even if that means surgery). i had someone tell me i'd gottenn too skinny and another that i'd gotten too 'in shape.' too in shape? for sex? crazy. and both times, my feelings ran something like the person below who had gained 120 pounds. i had instant lack of interest in the critic; game over.
--
04/20

I wish I'd met this guy first! My ex would point to other (i.e., Slimmer) women on the street and say "Can you look like her please?" . Eventually, I met someone who dislikes my wearing a long top over jeans as he says it hides my curves. Go figure. A tricky, delicate issue, to be sure.
--SA
04/20

Try to speak plainly and explicitly with a woman about her weight gain? And only "endure several days of emotional fallout"? What planet are you from? Do they have an open immigration policy there? Where do I book the ticket? My God, Erin, you're usually quite reasonable and a joy to read. But this time....wow. You sent that poor guy into the furnace.
--RR
04/20

Just a quick comment. I quit smoking a few years ago. I didn't gain 20 pounds. I gained 120 pounds (there was an undiagnosed thyroid issue in there also that contributed.) I was depressed and miserable. My partner at the time not only explained that he didn't want to be physical with me, (understandable) but that he didn't even want to sleep in the same bedroom as me. He moved into the office, and we had a friendly breakup six months later. I lost the weight within a year after the underactive thyroid was diagnosed. And he started showing interest again. And I have absolutely no interest in him any longer. Perhaps if he had been a bit more tolerant, a bit more supportive during that really awful time, I might be more charitible. But he wasn't. He hurt me very badly at a time where I really didn't need it. Now he wants to come back. I would rather spend my evenings picking dead leaves off of my house plants. My advice to "Shallow" is to wait. She is obviously trying to make positive changes in her life, it just might take some time for everything to balance out. Be careful of what you wish for, you might not like it once you get it.
--NB
04/20

Not true at all. As a male with a notoriously inconsistent libido, I'd have to say bringing up the issue would be hurtful, and most specifically of all, pointless. Fact- if a well operating male libido working in relation to someone loved (or even speaking of just free floating sexual drive), comes across a bit of extra weight, that just gets noted as an "extra": a bit more "dense chafe of flesh" to be enjoyed. If a male libido is not working at full capacity, nothing will change that. Or rather certainly nothing a partner can do will change that.
--iadr
04/20

To Shallow and Sorry: Miss Info knows what's up. I underscore her point about getting used to your gf as she is. That her weight changed makes it seem negotiable, but if this was really the case, you would have seen results by now. Looking at her current state and missing what she was is living in the past. The weight is here to stay and will most likely go up with age and having kids (if that's how you roll). And unless you're Adonis, there are probably things she'd change about you too. Imagine being 40 with a fat tire. And she'd still love you. So deal with it. Would you rather have her on a fast track to cancer from smoking?
--am
04/19

Re. "Shallow/Sorry". Your advice is ALWAYS great, but perhaps this time incomplete. The writer comes across as a little bit too much of a control freak. All done for HER benefit, of course. Helen Kaplan Singer and others write that the most common cause of low libido is interpersonal conflict, followed by depression, and medications. Job stress for 2 months may actually be an indirect cause, by triggering cause number 1. Probably he he feels that she could lose the weight if she really wanted to/tried to/cared about him, and the fact that she hasn't pisses him off. Just my take. Could be that he feels that he is busting his ass at this new job, and his resentment about that has made him hypersensitive to her not busting her ass equally to lose that weight. I would bet money on this, but then Miss Information would know all about me!
--MB
04/19

In regards to Shallow and Sorry, My boyfriend told me recently that it looked like I had gained some weight. I'm 5'11", 125 pounds with no hint of any weight/body issues. But that comment squirmed through my iron-clad self-esteem. It really hurt my feelings, and I was mad at myself for letting it. How can a guy in one breath, one innane comment, be able to belittle me so much? And if Shallow and Sorry decides to sit down and have this conversation with his girlfriend, he might feel good for a fleeting moment because he was honest. But the hurt and pain he caused her will linger much longer. She's obviously taking steps to improve her body, so she knows she must not look her best. The worst advice you could give him is to tell her "I'm sorry I can't get my dick hard because your bouncing rolls are distracting." Telling her she needs to lose some weight is one thing, but telling her that's the reason why he's lost his mojo is beyond cruel. My advice? Shallow and Sorry, they don't call them love handles for nothing. Hang on and enjoy the ride or split. If you can't look past a little weight gain, then jog yourself right over to the nearest bar and send a skinny girl a Diet Bacardi and Coke.
--AG
04/19

For aus below, sex once or twice a week is fairly normal after moving in for a while, when you also have other things to do in your lives (and it sounds like you do), so I wouldn't blame that on any weight gain. For Superficial or Scared, haven't you ever seen Revenge of the Nerds? Some of the smart but not so good looking guys are also some of the best in bed! And personality should always count over appearance if you're looking for a long-term relationship, because the hot-looking guys aren't going to look that hot forever. That being said, Miss Info is right that if there's no spark, it's not worth trying to force one, though I don't agree that you should try leading him on and then dumping him if the spark doesn't materialize. There's nothing wrong with being friends with someone you can talk to easily.
--JCF
04/19

Yes! A little bit of painful honesty now is much better than stewing in not saying stuff. Good on you for saying it like it should be Miss Info.
--AJA
04/19

People are right to call "Shallow" shallow... but this is sexual response we're talking about. She said she loves her lover, but her libido's gone down. Some pieces are missing here. Is the loss of the libido leaving a huge hole in their lives? Can there be less pressure on having desire while other things are sorted out, like the partner's health and the writer's work life? While you most certainly should not tell your partner that her extra weight turns you off- that would merit a "fuck you", if not a curt dismissal and end of life together- you could discuss where sex lies on the spectrum of things,and whether you might just be on a break from the hot and heavy. I didn't necessarily read shallowness in your letter, largely because a 20 pound weight gain in a woman seems so small. Maybe once summer rolls around you can go running together and everything will work out.
--mb
04/19

Erin, I generally think you are an advice goddess and I have never had a word of complaint about any advice you have given before, but as to your advice to Number 3: Dude, WTF? Anyone who is going to stop sleeping with their partner because of 20 pounds of weight gain doesn't deserve to have a partner. Fuck, in any long term relationship neither party is going to remain totally pretty forever. You get gray hairs, people gain weight. Heck, if you really love the person, both of you grow old and wrinkly eventually! The sense I get is that this isn't even a weight issue. Notice how the letter starts out - first she got her lover to quit cigarettes. Now she's moving onto wanting to shame her partner into losing weight. That's called being a control freak - and also, in many cases, is a portent of future abuse issues. Plus, holy fuck, these are two women! You would think that a woman would get how much awful, sinister pressure is put on women in society to be unhealthy and underweight. I hope this girl's girlfriend realizes what a shallow toad she's dating, moves on, and finds a different girl who lets her eat both pussy and cup cakes. Bart
--BJC
04/19

I think I'm in a similar situation right now, having quit smoking (mostly quit) just over a year ago. I also finished grad school (where I went to regular pilates classes) about six months ago and started an office job (where I'm mostly sedentery). I joined a gym and make as much time as I can for exercise, and manage to go once or twice a week, but I've definitely put on about 10 pounds. I moved in with my boyfriend when I came back from school and we're not having sex like we used to, but we used to be long-distance and totally crazy about each other whenever we saw each other, so I didn't expect it to be exactly the same, but it was really hard when we moved in and all of a sudden we were having sex once or twice a week when I was used to having it every day or so. When we moved in together, at some point, he said, "we owe it to each other to stay hot." Which I thought was really funny at the time, but I think he was kinda trying to make a point. . . the disappointing part is I realize that's probably more of an issue for him than it is for me. I'm going to be attracted to him if he has lovehandles, and I'm still going to think he's super attractive when he loses his hair and gets bifocals, but I don't know if he's going to be attracted to me if I pudge out a little. He idolizes skinny models, and I have that type of shape, but if I'm not toned I get rounder and rounder, my arms get those little flabby things which make me feel totally awful about myself (dude: OLD!). It's only 10 lbs we're talking about, so I don't think we're in dire straits, but what if it turns into 20 or 30 lbs? It's really difficult to make intense, weight-loss-directed exercise a high priority when I'm trying to work extra jobs to pay off school debts, make art (which he finds, I think, as attractive as the physical stuff), keep a kinda clean house, cook most of our meals and relax every now and then. Where do you cut corners? All I'm sayin, Shallow, is give a girl a break. Scheme to plant the thought in her brain when she's well past her cigarette habit, or else she is very much liable to go right back to it. Cigarettes are a good way to stay skinny & they're also very comforting when you feel lonely and rejected. They're also a good way to die early, and we don't want that. Concentrate on health, and consider this little secret of yours one of those little generosities that all relationships need to stay afloat. Remind her how proud you are of her but don't be false. Tell her you want to get more toned, and see if she's down to do it with you-- something fun like a kickboxing class might be entertaining & challenging enough to get her to drop a few pounds. Exercise can be a private thing, too, though-- so if she's not into your schemes, don't sweat it, just get happy that you have someone you're so crazy about (which is certainly hard enough to find) and concentrate on your mutual intellectual / creative hotttness. Finding things to do that celebrate the parts of her you still find irresistable may be your ticket back into bed.
--aus
04/19

Hey! This is Shallow and Sorry here... First, I'm FEMALE. That may or may not change readers' assessment of the situation. But I am glad that people have been thinking about this without suggesting Lesbian Bed Death. So thanks for that, everyone. I appreciate the input of everyone who's left a comment. My general feeling is that I can address all of the other factors affecting our sex life except for the issue of her weight. And that's just fine for now. We've talked about her weight gain when she's brought it up, so telling her I think it's affecting my desire for her isn't going to make her feel like I'm encouraging her work to address it. Thanks again, and I'll keep reading new comments
--AML
04/18

Dear Miss Information, I first want to say, I love your column like crazy. I pine for the moment when I see a new one appear on nerve's homepage. I just got done reading your response to "shallow and sorry" about his girlfriends weight gain and libido. I have to say I am all for communication in relationships. The more the better. I do however have some painful memories of being told my extremely minor 5 pound weight gain had been the reason why my boyfriends (I had been told by more than one jerk) didn't want to have sex anymore. Being told you're body turns someone off hurts more than it ever could help. Honesty is pretty important, but respect and consideration are very necessary as well. I know I for one would have liked some white lies and encouragement to jog once and a while. Who knows, maybe I'm just crazy, but I just want to say, having someone you love put you down even in the politest of ways is pretty traumatic. Love, CML theheavydress@aol.com
--CML
04/18

Sorry to say, I think the advice to #3 is just plain bad. Terrible. It's basically what I tried at the age of 25 or so, and it got me into a world of trouble, and all her friends hated me to boot. And I was gentle about it! I know better now, and so should Miss Info. Dude: DON'T take that crappy advice. Trust me.
--jk
04/18

As someone whose weight goes up and down, your advice to Shallow and Sorry was waaaaaay off base. You just cannot fully recover from the emotional repercussions of that conversation. Women are bombarded with enough unrealistic body expectations from various outlets, and hearing it from a partner just destroys any trust you have in them. Shallow and Sorry, can you deal with the possibility of NEVER seeing her naked again, heavier or not? You would not believe how creative us ladies can get in terms of lights and covering up. I had a boyfriend who didn't see me naked for 6 whole months after a similar talk, and when the 6 months were up, I dumped him. Shallow and Sorry needs to either focus on the things he does find attractive about her or get out of the relationship. And if Shallow and Sorry's girlfriend happens to be reading this - you can find a guy who is just as good or better than him who will find you attractive in all your various weight ranges. Just don't try and stick it out once he's totally fucked over your self esteem. He isn't worth it if he does.
--LM
04/18

I can't imagine coming back from the blow of a guy who supposedly loved me telling me I wasn't hot enough for him anymore. Even if she lost the weight, the damage could linger. I'm with the positive reinforcement and support approach. On his end, how about checking out some porn featuring HOT women with curves. This is not to say fat chicks, just not the stick figures with tits you see essentially everywhere in this culture. Or he can go classic and spend some time with the sex symbols of the 50s. Consider it a little positive reinforcement for HIM. And if she's such an awesome girl he'd better get his shallow shit together. Lots of guys PREFER women with curves. If he's not making her feel sexy she might just dump HIM for someone who will.
--LC
04/18

Not too sure about Answer #2 this time. I think the part you left out is where she TELLS THE FRIEND that she is just giving things a trial run, and that it is probably not going to mean anything to her, so HE doesn't get attached while she's still running an "experiment" with his emotions. COMMUNICATION, people!
---TRM
04/18

Cheap Chinese and cigarettes? Dollars to donuts she was way underweight before, and finally is at a healthy weight.
--WD
04/18

To respond to Shallow - The weather is supposed to get better soon - try making after works plans to go to walking/jogging/biking/blading in a nearby park - it will help her get in shape and help you deal with stress. Does she enjoy sports? Encourage her to join a company softball team, or purchase Chelsea Piers passes for the two of you to take golf lessons, etc. A great idea (if you are pet people) is to consider getting a dog. Going for walks 3+ times a day is a great way to get physically active and it also is emotionally & socially beneficial.
--SH
04/18

I was recently in a situation like this. Having your boyfriend tell you that your weight gain is not sexy and therefore making him not want to have sex with you hurts alot. And seeing how I was in this situation, I imagine the girlfriend in question probably knows, whether she admits it or not that she has put on weight and she probably doesn't feel sexy herself. From personaly experience, there could be some things going in within the relationship that while he make react differently too, the stress she is feeling in turn making her gain weight. I say if its bothering him that much go find a skinny girlfriend, who I am quite sure he will find issues with as well. He should be thankful that his girlfriend is making what sounds to me like positive life changes in her diet and exercise and attempting to correct the problem instead of worrying about how quickly she can loose the weight. Would he rather her develop an eating disorder or mental problems just to please him?
--LR
04/18

Whether Shallow's girl moved from ultra-skinny to "normal" or from "normal" to somewhat curvy/voluptuous, it's a shame that she's not with one of the MANY guys who, despite what magazines will tell you, adore women with real, adult, women's bodies.
--MN
04/18

My partner was probably 30lbs lighter when we got together 9 years ago; if you'd asked me then if I'd think she was sexy with the extra weight, I'd probably have said "not really". But as it turns out, the weight gain has affected her libido a lot more than mine. Maybe it's just because we've been together so long, but my reactions to her seem to be a lot more dependent on her attitude and behavior than her physical appearance. W/o denying the need for purely physical attraction, I'd say Shallow and Sorry should keep his mouth shut and spend some time thinking about just how shallow his overall attraction for his girlfriend is.
--PL
04/18

Hey NF. Funny that you reference that Shamu article. That's one of my favorites. I used to use it on an ex of mine. xoxo Miss Info
--EB
04/18

Gaining weight when you quit smoking is totally normal and he should in no way sabatoge her attempt to quit which is far more important than any temporary weight gain or his libido. When she's been solidly quit for a year, she can start to worry about losing weight to please him. Until then, he should try being less selfish.
--dma
04/18

Not that either you or I have any idea, but it sounds like Shallow and Sorry's girlfriend went from being unhealthily skinny to a normal weight, and encouraging him to talk to her about her "weight gain" may send her back down the road of eating disorders or something close. You can't help what kind of body you're attracted to, but I still don't think it's appropriate for him to make it an issue when she's finally healthy, especially in the context of their sex life. If he really loves her he'll see that calling her on her newfound health as if it's a problem is destructive and instead he'll start reevaluating why he finds ultra-skinny girls exclusively attractive and try to find beauty in the health and happiness of his girlfriend.
--jb
04/18

As someone who has put on a few pounds, that boyfriend would be toast if he tried to have that talk with me. Ultimately, 20 pounds really isn't that much, especially if she gained that weight after starting to make healthy choices. All though she may not be as thin, I imagine she has to look a whole lot healthier. Also, if these two have been together for two years, there could possibly be long term potential, and this is a bad precident to set. At what point in her life will it be okay that she puts on a few pounds? If they ever have children, will she be expected to immeadiately drop back to her pre baby weight in order to be attractive to her bf?
--KR
04/18

I wonder if our "nice" boyfriend has ever put on a bit of weight, had a breakout, or maybe been on the receiving end of a bad haircut? Did his girlfriend decide not to fuck him till the bad haircut grew out, or the zits went away?
--EE
04/18

hrm...i dunno about the advice on the last one. the GF has clearly made major life changes, in both her attitude and behavior, and perhaps the impatient BF should wait a little longer, to see if her new, healthy eating and gym going combat the 20 lbs. she may just be in a state of flux. by the way, how short is this women that 20 pounds has taken her from super-desireable to un-fuckable? maybe i have a skewed perspetive. i gained about 50 pounds when i dealt with an eating disorder and drug problem, and have never been happier, trying to healthily lose the weight, skinny BF by my side.
--MME
04/18

Ooh, telling your GF, however lovingly, that her weight gain is dowsing your libido will so not work, I'm pretty sure. You might have listened to your mom, but she was also your mom and not someone (hopefully) you were trying to be sexy for. I think the only thing that works here is the Shamu method as outlined in the NYTimes 'modern love' column: The gist of it is 'The central lesson I learned from exotic animal trainers is that I should reward behavior I like and ignore behavior I don't'. This seems to work on Orcas and dogs the same as on the American male or female. You won't get a seal to balance a ball on it's nose by telling him it's bumming you out because it can't. He should continue cooking light weight stuff and go to the gym with her and the positive encouragement never hurts.
--NF
04/18

p.s. (see previous comment.) He later admitted there were no "other things." He was just trying to soften the blow, though at the time it just made me paranoid, i.e., is it my face? My ankles? What???
--
04/18

I've been in this situation. I didn't realize the weight was piling on, but noticed his desire flagging. I asked him directly, and he said "Er, yes, among other things." I couldn't blame him, and knew he didn't want to hurt me. I also wanted to lose the weight, so I used the promise of a hotter sex life as the carrot to spur me on. I lost plenty of weight, and am glad of it, not just because of the improved chemistry. I'm concerned about the girlfriend who seems to eat healthily and exercise though... is there a nutrition problem here, or does she need to see a doctor?
--AB
04/18

As someone who's been on the receiving end of the "nice personality, bad appearance" judgment far too many times, I'd like to say that your advice is exactly the kind of thing we don't like. Your advice pretty much reads "Give them hope, then shoot them down. In fact, never speak to them again." Believe it or not, most people seem to find that way to hurt us without the help of an advice columnist.
--JR
04/18

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