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While I grew up in the "twiggy" era I grew up with a classic hourglass shape which I hide even today. When my waist and bust are defined I still have to deal with men's eyes, hands and remarks. I am a mother of 3, a professional college educated woman with my own business and a respected member of my city's government. I am 60. No I'm not bragging. No I don't show cleavage or wear short skirts.
--rrv
04/11

Funny how men seem to always crave big tits, in the end, regardless of the build associated with them. I've got no feedback, really, but I'm sick of being told that men just want curvy women, of photographers telling me I look anorexic, and dinner dates theorizing that I must be bulimic to eat as much as I do and stay thin. There are a million reasons why women are aspiring to be slender, but one of the reasons why some women are slender is simply nature.
--CT
01/16

JC - that's why we write books. Columns have to be snappy or no one reads them.
--KenM
01/16

I thought this was kind of a shallow look at the rise of thin culture; it was a good start, but really abbreviated -- so, people want to be thin because it makes them look wealthy and pious, but concentrated pockets of fat still turns dudes on? Okay, what about plastic surgery? What about eating disorders? What about the rise of obesity in countries where a little extra body fat was desirable and the accompanying change in social attitudes towards the overweight? Is there a race or gender divide? A divide of sexual orientation? The article suggests that the Everyman (I assume straight, white, middle-class) digs tits & ass; what about female self-perception and varying ethnic standards? Nerve, come on, your writers should (and can) do better.
--JC
01/16

GL, I thought my point was rather the opposite?
--KenM
01/16

"The fact that women like to emulate waifs while men masturbate over T&A tells the real truth of the matter: thin may be classy, but curves are sexy." Because women should base their health/eating habits and self-image on whether or not men will want to masturbate to their image.
--GL
01/15

interesting hypothesis at end of article - curvy voluptuousness = sexy, waif-like thinness = respectability perhaps the desire to become waif-like, and thus respectable, stems from the desire to not be objectified & drooled over?
--DH
01/15

Reading your article, I felt informed of some things I had not considered, thank you for that... I am a working photographer. Not being one to go look in books if I can find out the 'why' by other means, I asked some of the designers I have worked with why they always used 'waify' women as opposed to 'real women' that are a more accurate reflection of our American society. Most of the men I asked were gay, and pointed out the inclusion of a few women with curves over the last ten years or so, but invariably the overwhelming answer was '... the clothes hang better without all those bumps and curves...' While I admit that my 'research' was not scientific and my 'sample' of people polled was fewer than 100, my conclusion was more in line with one of the theories you discounted; gay men prefer the figure of teen-aged boys to that of a curvy woman as an aesthetic choice of what is sexy and desireable to them. Your argument is very compelling, but I think it is a little too over-thought. There may be truth to what you say, but I have found, as one of the other respondants stated, people like what the like regardless of style. That the clothes they design look better on women without curves should be no great surprise, as young men do not have those kind of curves. One gravitates toward that the desire most, after all... Just as some heterosexual men prefer women at 19, so it is with some gay men and straight women. The beauty of this whole debate is, there is no right or wrong answer. Most importantly, it really does not matter. Those who lead do as they wish, those who follow are doomed to chase whatever the latest fashion is or suffer the opinions of people whose opinions they value over their own common sense... But then, 'common sense' is really not all that common, is it...?
--NB
01/15

I have ALWAYS been attracted to "earthier" women my whole life. I have never been physically attracted to skinny women. One thing that I have noticed over the yrs with my friends and aquantances who have had very trim,petite wives and ended up bein in affairs. The Mistress was always a good bit thicker than the wife or girlfriend. Why don't men just admit that they like,love,crave women of substance? It is a mystery to me. dirtwood
--twa
01/15

In regard to what ejd wrote, I was going to actually include fat-fetishism in the article, but couldn't think of a way to include it without distracting from the main thrust. Two observations: One, as the term "fetishism" indicates, actively pursuing larger women is considered a bit outre. Two, it's considered a bit of a lapse in taste, as if one prefers Coors to Dom Perignon. In other words, the societal reaction to fatty-chasers is that they are, as ejd says, abberant. I'd argue that this, like everything in aesthetics, is rooted in perceptions of class. Such a preference is therefore a form of erotic self-subjugation with overtones of power and status exchange (as holds true for many fetishes, such as foot-fetishism and golden showers). The preference not an individual's sense of values and taste, but in the society's. The burlesque of these values is then incorporated by the fetishistic sense of the erotic.
--KenM
01/13

I agree with most of what has been said in the article, but apparently you miss the point entirely. Look around on the internet and you will find plenty of men who are attracted to fat women. Though presently still just considered a subculture to most (if not a mental aberration to some), it has been gaining strength in the last five years. The point is, beauty is an individual thing, and society cannot destroy one's perceptions of it if one resists. But it sure has been trying to, and there are those who fall from its hurtful barbs. But they are, after all, just words.
--ejd
01/13

Surprisingly great take on this. Insightful and imaginative.Thought it was written by a woman...the best compliment of all.
--lu
01/13

You're on to something, however I think you miss the mark in a few areas. Your theory misses why those fashions caught on at the time, clearly there were many competing memes. The obvious what-high-society-can-afford look is generally correct for women, but suspect for men. What men find attractive, despite the whims of fashion, has really never changed. Men do not want 'curvy' women if 'curvy' means fat, nor do they want 'waifs' if 'waifs' means no T&A. It's really pretty simple and has been confirmed by numerous studies; men find certain ratios attractive and men find young women attractive (peak at about 19).
--KRW
01/13

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