SPECIAL ISSUES

Reader Feedback on "Tell us what you think about the future of marriage"

I am an artist exploring the concept of marriage and am interested in people's stories as to why their marriages end. I personally think that being with the same person for an awfully long time is quite unrealistic. I agree that there is a whole machine encouraging marriage - it's a billion dollar industry. I'm fascinated as to why we want to get married when it has such a high failure rate.
--jg
03/09

I believe that feminism has resulted in a delay and decline in marriages. Women still want all their "entitlements" in a marriage and divorce, and therefore, there is no financial reason for men to get married. In fact, marriage usually ends in financial loss or ruin, almost always for most men, but not women. Unless women truly becom independent as most claim they desire, I think we will continue to see a decline in marriage, and continued fights in court to eliminate disgusting habits like alimony. Feminism is a good thing, I think, but it's currently a lie and double standard: Feminist claim independence, but have want men to pay for all the meals; collect alimony; stay at home; etc. These attitudes must be eliminated for woment to truly be called a feminist or independent. Men: avoid marriage and join the marriage strike. Cohabitation may be an answer but still have a good prenuptial agreement to avoid paying alimony or "palimony." Protect yourself from the so-called greedy feminist movement.
--ISE
10/13

My parents met when my mom was nine and my dad about twenty. He was a good friend of the family -- the local school teacher -- and was around for most of her childhood, until civil war split them apart when she was fourteen. When the war ended, many lives had been torn apart, so I guess finding each other again had some special poignancy. They dated until my mom was in her twenties and a primary school teacher, then, when she got pregnant, they married. They have been married now for over thirty years. It has been far from perfect: they love each other more than they love anyone else, but my dad (an orphan) never got over many of his insecurities, and ultimately my mom, a strong, intelligent woman, gave up career and other things just to prove she loved him. For most of my childhood, she vacillated between cursing the ill fate of the women of her generation, cursing the folly of love, and doting on him (we were sort of extras in their relationship, but that's a whole different story). She always told me never to give up my dreams for a man, and when I started dating, I guess I came so uninformed, inexperienced etc that for a while all I had was dreadful relationships. Then I met the person I thought was my "soulmate" (some seven years later, I don't know that I believe this even exists). A great, trusting friendship matured into a love affair, and within six months of being lovers, he proposed. Of course, I said yes, but at the time we both understood it was more of an assertion of our commitment to each other. We were both aggressively pursuing independent careers and I did not want to repeat my mother's mistakes. Then, after a few years, he got a chance to get his ideal job in his ideal country, and it became clear we would have to part, or make a more lasting commitment. We got married. We are still married, five years later. His career is at an all-time high; mine has died a quiet death. We move at the drop of a hat for his job, and all of a sudden the only friends I have are two long-time companions from childhood who live across the Atlantic. The only people who come for dinner are people who know me as his wife. Now, I am still the ambitious, social person I was when we met, and over the years I did not realize I was sinking into the same up-down depression that plagued my mom. You love him, you want him, but he has trouble reconciling your desire for more than just a relationship with his own insecurities. Familiar story, ha ha. In the last year, much of the pressure has finally reached a critical point, and we began fighting and hurting each other -- something we NEVER used to do. I was alarmed to find myself at risk of being another statistic, and having failed at pretty much everything else, the thought of failing at marriage drove me to the brink of suicide (three attempts). Enter another complication: his close friend and I, also good friends, suddenly discover we are sexually attracted to each other. As a lapsed Catholic, I do what any good wife would do: hightail it outta there, and hurt myself and my good friend. His relationship with my SO also starts to suffer. Now, I am no fool and am old enough to realize the greatest mistake you can make is to put your salvation in another human being's hands. It puts too much pressure on the other person, and is doomed to disappoint you. It's not just about sex, of course, so in the period of enforced silence I find myself falling apart even more. Which brings me to the whole point of this rant. I'm sure you can tell I am an old-fashioned kinda gal, though I am generally cool with whatever other people do, as long as no one else gets hurt. Having been cheated on by my previous two lovers before my husband (both actually caught STDs in the course of their escapades, though I have been lucky enough to remain uninfected!), I always thought I would have to prepare myself for my husband wanting other women, so long as we discussed it first and handled it honestly, to avoid the possibility of grevious hurt. But for most people, this attitude in marriage is not cool: certainly, my husband, when I confessed my attraction to his friend, was NOT cool. It simply brought all the other tensions to the surface. This in spite of the fact that I don't want to leave him for this other person: I loved the way we were as a platonic triad, there was love and trust aplenty. Marriage is supposed to be about commitment and love and respect and courage, but it is doomed to fail unless we come clean and understand that, in the 21st century, it cannot be approached the same way as it was decades and centuries ago. In my country, there is a popular saying that a child who fails to cry out when in pain may die in the silence of the night. I do not want to die in this silence, I do not want my marriage to fail. I have always disapproved of the direction our modern society is taking, a path that encourages "me-itis", and fails to applaud old-fashioned qualities like honesty and considering others' feelings. BUT marriage must be re-negotiated. There is no one-size-fits all solution: we don't all wear the same bra size, why the hell should we all have to conform to the same formula for marriage? Yes, I believe in marriage. I believe it can work, with the right emotional investment. But we need to let go of our prejudices. If it's not for you, all good and well. If it is for you, please do not make the mistake so many have made before us, of confusing love with ownership, or, as they say, taking a ring on the finger as the same as a ring through the nose. Respect the sacrifices your partner makes for you, and expect to have to make sacrifices for your partner: if it was easy, it wouldn't be called a "sacrifice"! Keep your promises, but remember that, so long as you/your parnter are alive and continue to grow and change, your marriage must also evolve, or it will grow stale. We are talking these days, and trying to negotiate new boundaries. He is trying to learn to be less intransigent. I am trying to learn to love life again. It is all a challenge, but I hope I'm alive long enough to make it a success again. Good luck to you all.
--ACC
02/20

Having been married, now separated and soon to be divorced. I feel very much a part of this system of labeling and categorizing the human experience. Individuals are complex. Change is a constant. NOW,it seems to me that the only reason to get married is to have a family. However having children and a quality of life in todays mayhem can be overwhelming. One of the benefits of progress is that it creates choices. Organization is key. You have to have time management. In other words its not so much that there is or isnt a future of marriage. It is now the individuals right to decide if it is right for them. Marriage in the next half a century will be relegated to a myriad of options. For example, as the pill revolutioned sex. Something will be invented or has been that will allow women who have very active careers or have made concessions or simply had bad luck to freeze their eggs and wait to have children. So there will not be such an imbalance with men.This may take a much longer time to manifest in poorer parts of the world. So, younger women will always be desirable for all the biological and psychological reasons. However, in wealthier parts or the world it will be more and more difficult to discriminate based on age or fertility issues. Also whether men like it or not women are deciding more their futures and taking time to evolove their lives as men have traditionally done throughout history. It is happening as I write this in the Biotech, and Pharmaceutical idustries. Research is developing these technologies, treatments etc. This is not to forgo all the beauty treatments which are big business and are only enhancing these lifestyle choices. Utimately, perhaps we will effectively even one day morph with machines. It is only a matter of time. In the short term marriage is still considered a traditional option. In the long term it will be considered less important. However individuals will always feel a need for pair bonding of some sort. Marriage will continue as an individual choice. Maybe its far fetched but we are moving at a frenetic pace with the wealth and power of information that will create this ripple effect around the world.
--vls
07/30

Hi. My name is Adrienne. I am in college and I am doing on The future on marriages. It has to be an arguementive paper. I think I am going to do it as: Yes, traditional matrimony going out of style. I need help writting this paper and getting the correct information on this topic. I do think that the future of marriage is going out of style. I think that is has died a little bit; the thought if marriage, especially men and women. Now and days gays and lesbians are worrying about getting married more than heterosexuals. Hopefully the future of marriage is returns in its correct manner. Thanks, if I could get some advice from u guys it would be deeply appreciated. Adrienne D
--ASD
10/31

all i know is this. i'm thirty-two years old- i've been married before, when i was 20, for 11 months. no children. last week i married a thirty-one year old man with a 6 year old son and one ex-wife. i went into this with a lot of information- statistics, my life growing up as a step-child, my freinds' divorces etc... i was barely able to walk through the fear and go through with the decision. i don't know what the future holds. all i know is that i have no delusions about what married life is. i know it can't fix problems and there is no guarantee. what i do know is that i like the idea of two people deciding that they are willing to do anything to make something work. my husband and i do not want to get divorced again. we want to have children together and we want to stay together. who doesn't right? especially one week after the wedding. what i'm saying is, i've lived the exciting dating, singles life since my divorce 12 years ago, i'm not saying it wasn't fun and i was pretty satisfied most of the time. it just lacked something, it wasn't enough. this marriage means a lot to me and to my husband. and today my stepson called me "mom2". i never thought in all my, tattooed, imported beer drinking, hip-club going, best haircut and shoes having life that that would bring me the kind of joy that i felt today. but, it did. i can still get tattoos, get expensive haircuts and multiple pairs of unnecessary shoes. i do not have to become my mother or beaver's mother, being married gets a bad wrap sometimes. the best part is we met right here on nerve.com
--kmfs
09/13

There's a HUGE difference between divorcing with children and divorcing without. Divorce is a godsend when a couple sans children realize they can't be happy together; it is a viable way to avert the misery of two unhappy lives without making others suffer. The opposite is true when the couple has children. You can NEVER be divorced, you will always be tethered to each other, and, more often than not, your relationship continues on in the most poisonous of ways. Divorce and single parenthood is horrible for the whole family. And the big, fat lie that the professionals feed us is that children will recover from divorce. They never really do. One hundred percent of all married couples, without exception, will want to throw in the towel at some point in the relationship. What is essential to keep in mind is that there is life beyond the rocky times, and it is worth it to weather it. My advice for anyone considering marriage is to pay attention to the warning bells, problems don't get better with time and marriage, they get worse. Don't fall in love with someone's potential; if the potential hasn't been fulfilled, your influence isn't going to change that.
--JLK
08/29

As long as love continues, so will this institution. Although I think people will do it later than earlier.
--RC
07/16

You can decry marriage as too institutional, too constricting, too old hat, whatever, but the post that said marriage is a human institution -- and as such will survive -- is right. I believe in marriage. I believe a lot of people get married too young, before they find themselves as individuals, before they truly mature. I believe that starter marriages are lame and lazy. Fall in love, make a committment, and then -- only then -- decide if you *really* want to spend the rest of your life with that person. And decide if you're the kind of person who can live with the responsibility and sometimes the struggle that comes with that kind of pledge. If it doesn't suit you, find a new paradigm. If it does, then make the committment knowingly, and wake up every day renewing your pledge to your partner, and make a married life together. It can be done, but it doesn't become successful by itself. It takes an active choice, daily. And for those who believe in it, it can be so worth everything you pour into it. You have to choose it.
--ib
07/08

For me the future of marriage is open marriages. At least in my biased opinion it is. It's the only way I would consider marriage is open. Some people think it's the easy way out, and you can do what you want, but that's simply untrue. Open relationships in general require open and honest communication on a regular, steady basis, and it's definitely not a free for all. It is however a type of relationship where one can see others outside their main relationship, short term or long term. So I say to all those out there who say open relationships are not for them, don't knock it before you try it. - Savannah Skye...
--SES
06/28

Marriage is changing that is certain! Both George Washington & Thomas Jefferson were NOT married. They had common law wives. The marriage laws were enacted to prevent white people from marrying their slaves. Read about the history of marriage. It's more about what you can't do than what is permitted. The sodomy laws have been overturned. Pretty soon I can get the government out of my bedroom. The next thing is to get them out of women's reproductive decisions. That's why we still have a separation of church & state in this country. Give everyone health benefits & we won't care who is married to whom. It's about finding the kinds of relationships which support us in our growth & development anyway. Marriage is a condition of the heart!
--rt
06/15

Marriage is for the select few that 'truly' have found each other. The problem is people who should be getting married aren't. That's because of witnessing all of the carnage left over from the bulk majority of people who got hitched that never should have. While I'm sure marriage is way too commercialized, what it stands for is still incredibly important. Too many relationships end up in marriage disasters simply because they got wed before their relationship had matured to the point at which they could 'see' each other without all of the hype.
--JJL
06/14

to the last post, re not wanting to be like your parents... having three and being who you want to be won't save you from finding someday that, even though the details of your life are different from your parents' daily lives, you are in some way like your parents. the most bizarre thing about getting older is that this happens, somehow, when you least expect it.
--
06/13

Wake up people!! lol...Everything evolves over time! Why not marriage? My spouse, our live in girlfriend, and I have No problem juggling time spent together or time spent apart. We are a Triad, but we haven't as of yet opened that relationship to outsiders. It all boils down to whether or not YOU can handle the dynamics of such an intense relationship. We have noticed all through these posts of looking at everything but ourselves. We have seen repeated mention of "My parents, My ex wife, etc"... Why does society constant look at the past to see what the future holds. YOU are NOT your parents!!! We as a newer generation(s) handle things differently...The only thing you should look back on your parents relationship for is...things to NOT do in your relationship. So what if our thinking differs from yours that is what makes us ALL individuals. We are humans...we make mistakes, we live and learn and we ultimately evolve. Whether you realize this or not. If you choose to be so closed minded and think that "there can only be one man and one woman" then you are sadly mistaken. We all three have a vast amount of love and affection for each other. Yes, there is love involved!! Sexual relations is simply a perk. That is that added bonus! The extra/second prize in the cracker jack box! We didn't get into this relationship strictly for sex, granted we were pretty certain that sex would go along with the territory, but it wasn't our reasoning. There is a vast difference between polyamory and swinging, and in somes minds this line is a little blurred. Gray even. We talked about this relationship for a couple of years before we finally decided to try. deep long late night discussions. complete honesty and directness and bluntness for that matter. If you can't tell the person you married to the complete truth...you desires and fantasies... then who can you tell...? Do you keep bottled up and just erupt one day...? You might, but we didn't. we have always been 100% honest with each other. We are very secure in our relationship, and the enhancment of allowing someone else to share our home, our love, our bed and our time has made our little puzzle complete. we were lacking nothing to begin with, she has simply created and extra smile each day, rapid heart beats, more love than i ever knew i could feel...I recieve more love then i ever thought i was worth. Cloud nine doesn't even begin to describe what we all feel for each other and our household. Granted...all should know that polyamory is NOT for everyone, some people are happy with theirselves or simply insecure with there current dynamic to bring added entities into their lives. NO, some can't handle it, but for those of us who can/are why look down on us because we choose MORE? I have nothing against monogamy! Don't get us wrong!!! WE each have a choice in life. only one of the people in our triad comes from a broken home...so i guess that shoots a lot of theories out of the water. lol. If you feel you can handle loving more than one person...then why not..i am not compromising the institution of marriage i am simply enhancing my own. I don't want my life to be like my parents. They seem to hate all they see. People of that generation seem to have developed an indifference, apathy even for fellow human beings. I want to be who I am...Who I choose to be...not what society says i should. I live my life the way i choose and suggest other do the same. Yes, make life happy...Life is too short to worry over trivial nonsense that will only give you wrinkles in the end. Well there's our 6 cents. Just know that it can work...we are proof. It will be bumpy just as "traditional marriages" are, but if you are willing to put in the effort and the time then anything is possible. Just remember communication is ALWAYS key. Try to be willing to see outside the box...Just know that there may be 3 of us in one relationship, one house, one bed...but we all love each other as no other ever could. You always hear every person has a soul mate...it just so happens that each of us had two. And how we love life! W,E,&I
--its3
06/12

I think it's breathing it's last breaths as an institution. After all, when was it we humans imposed our laws and rules on the human heart? Only a few thousand years ago, yes? It seems the Greeks lived quite well and civilized without the need to marry. And yet man, in his infintite wisdom, seems to think that a piece of paper and a law can regulate the passions of the heart, the head, and the groin. Just like the army corp of engineers thinks it can control the Mississippi River- nature will always do what it will in the end.
--e.s.
06/10

I like this allot. I am 51 and was just introduced to polyamory less than a year ago. I never heard the word before and I am an old hippy, but one that was a bit more sheltered I suppose. I am glad that the gay marriage is bring out the poly community, there are so many people who are worried about child custody, job discrimination and all of the usual concerns that are attached to a alternative lifestyle. I am very happy to see the younger generation embracing the truth about marriage. It is true it has a poor reputation and I am one of the statistics. But no longer will I need to be concerned with that. I fell in love with a man who has been poly his whole life and I thought what do I have to lose? Nothing, I do not have to worry about our relationship we are getting married and are happy together and are committed! We are dating another couple hope one day we will all live together. Sleeping in a special made bed of a Ca. king and a twin together. The matress company will make them and they are not as expensive as you think. The only thing now is who will make the sheets? There is business to be made out there. The future of marriage is a Polyamous lifestyle or the other choice is to be unhappy and cheat on each other! I choose Poly and will never go back to the traditional style of realtionships.
--DE
06/09

Marriage can work, if people try. Polyamory can work if people try. Being in multiple relationships isn't taking the easy road-it's harder generally speaking. If you try to make it long term, its just as hard as a marriage- exponentially difficult. I'm of a generation which grew up with AIDS lurking around every corner. I know kids who have taken care of STD's and some who always will. There are more of them in the '2=marriage' than in the polyamourous mindset...but that's because its the majority of people. Most people *know* that they are at higher risk and take the tests that ensure disease free. If you can tell your partner that you had/will have sex with someone else, then you don't have to hide it when you get tested. etc. I'm for honesty. In marriage or polyamory
--ac
06/09

If there's one thing I've learned in the last three days, it's that marriage is doomed unless there are societal and legal revamps of the marriage 'institution.' Everyone just jumps into marriage cos it's cool or they want to believe someone loves them. My parents, who I thought were lovingly married until three days ago, are divorcing because my dad's been cheating for at least a decade. After telling my sob story to my friends, I've found that all but my boyfriend's parents have been divorced because of the same thing - cheating. Marriage is doomed.
--ja
06/08

As a married man, I think that those sounding the horn for the end of marriage are a bit premature. Marriage can and will continue to work for those who are willing and capable of making the honest commitment required. It's not for everyone and it should not be the only recognized form of commitment, but for those who are successfully happy and married it works fine. I think that as a society we want everything and feel entitled to everything. You can't have it all. There must be sacrifice in life, what that sacrifice is, is what we have the power to determine.
--JMD
06/08

you Know I think its sad what "Marriage" has become or symbolize in America especially. Not until the past 40 years or so did we pick who we want to marry, and since then it seems to have gone in the crapper. It seems there is more of a focus on the looks and lust than of "True Love". So if you are still stuck in the infatuation phase like an adolescent of course you will look at a marital-manogomous relation as "Impossible" you have decided not to give yourself "fully" over to your spouse as you vowed on that day. Everyone gets tempted, its what you do with that is the problem, so Have fun with your spouse. and Stop looking at the menu if youre not going to buy, that seems to be how alot of it does start. It would seem that the future of Marriage is screwed in this country, but there is hope.
--sc
06/08

Marriage is a human invention, and like most human inventions it will have a future as long as it is meaningful to people. It's clear (from the recent flap about gay marriage, among other things) that it will continue to be meaningful for generations down the road. Marriage doesn't mean much to me, however, and its meanings are largely negative. It's not really a personal thing, for me: my life hasn't been rocked by divorce, or anything. I just think that a relationship is an act of will -- the mutual will of two people to be together, whatever that means for them -- and that is what matters. I'm not religious, so that aspect of marriage is nonexistent to me. I also don't care whether or not the government smiles on my most intimate relationship or not. Clearly, the relevance of marriage is a personal and subjective thing. I can respect people who choose to make marriage what they want it to be. But people can have the relationship they want without marriage. The thought of staying with someone because I'm married, when I would leave them if I were not, is repulsive to me. Nor would I want someone to stay with me, against her better wishes, simply because we are married. So in the end, marriage seems irrelevant to me, and given all the social baggage that comes with it, I am happy to forego it.
--JT
06/07

As a society, we push so hard for individualism and self-sufficiency, while simultaneously realizing we need marriage to continue advancing. These are not incompatible ends, but they do require a larger amount of selflessness and sacrifice for another that many adults of this generation seem reluctant to provide. The paradigm of marriage needs to be rethought to allow it to better mesh itself with the changing social, emotional and psychological needs of humans.
--jbh
06/07

I had to get married so that I could get on my husband's health plan. It was also easier for us to get a really nice apartment in New York City. Of course, come tax time, we actually lost money, so the tax breaks are unappealing unless we decide to have kids. I hate the idea of having to get married but was tired of fighting. As long as church and state are not separate (anyone who says they are hasn't opened his or her eyes lately,) we'll still have this mentality of conforming to the social norm just to be able to survive. As soon as civil unions get the same basic rights (visitation rights, etc.) as marriage, I have a feeling that there will be a lot of anullments happening in America. I know we'll be trying to do it.
--AD
06/06

I work in the bridal industry and fully believe people are getting married to have a wedding, not realizing they are also expected to participate in an actual marriage. Incredibly, I have many repeat customers.
--LH
06/05

The future of marrage is going down the toilet with one flush and there is only one thing we can do as young couples and that is to learn how to be a best friend first but even then as with all things it comes down to the old cleshe MONEY. I was in a marrage for over 10 years and have two wonderful children with my x-wife but to this day i still have a wonderful relationship with her. Since our divorce i feel we have become closer than we were when we were married so i say TO HELL WITH MARRAGE i like being single and having a good relationship with the one i care for and as far as i am concerned marrage is no better than the piece of paper its written on.
--JLM
06/05

50% of marriages end in divorce. It takes commitment and open communication which people don't seem to want to invest in. The grass is always greener on the other side; once you cross it, the other side gets greener! The bottom line: marriage is only a piece of paper; it's the commitment that counts (whether or not you're married).
--df
06/05

Whether now with gay unions, or marriages, the reality is that the imposition of marriage, that is, the requirement of marriage may be little more than an official registration necessary for the state, but not for the individuals involved. A marriage license never conferred more emotional commitment to marriage, only the legal commitment. Cohabitating partners now stay together for years and never get married. The idea that marriage cannot be a personal status chosen between the parties and must be an expectation of society in order to establish organizational stability may be obsolete. The real question is whether individuals are free to live their personal lives free from state intervention, and continue to receive state concessions in accordance with the individual rights and responsibilities of the Constitution. As a society, we have yet to approach the issue with any seriousness, but might be forced to in light of the many different configurations of what was formerly known as marriage without losing the commitment of society to those individuals who express themselves non-traditionally. Aren't they also entitled to the equal protection of the law similarly as are married couples?
--pb
06/05

I honestly think people will continue getting married, although I can't really figure out why, when almost every married couple has either a wife who has cheated or a husband who has cheated. No one seems to take vows seriously in an age where random sex with strangers is considered "Normal". I think it's really too bad....everyone is so for "Open Relationships" and "Open Marriages" that they are not taking into account the possible downfalls of disease spreading or pregnancies and the affect it will have on the marriage in the long run. We are definatley all about Instant Gratification and to hell with everyone else's feelings......
--VJS
06/04

If "marriage" is just the legal institution, then the future is rather confused. The Permissives and the Coercives are in conflict, and it's not pretty. Just as with abortion, getting legal rights is only part of it. I can imagine Permissive churches bombed and Permissive ministers shot. And the Coercives will come up with some tripe about it being God's law, as if they understood either God or law. On the other hand, if "marriage" means a commited living relationship between two (or more) consenting adults, then the future is rather better. Most of those I know who don't have that kind of marriage seem to want it. Most of those I know who have it want to keep it. And if "marriage" means only state-enforced one-man-one-woman death-til-us-part religeously-sanctioned bondage, then I hope that it leaves on the next bus.
--RRA
06/04

As americans, the couple in question seem as delusional as ever. comme la libert� en Iraq.
--JR
06/03

Who cares? Just leave it up to the people and get it out of government! Support a Fair Tax (www.fairtax.org) to eliminate the fiscal need for state marriage, and join the Free State Project (www.freestateproject.org) to help create a society where EVERYONES relationships are respected.
--FSP
06/03

Given that any marriage can end in divorce, and seeing how badly the courts treat men in divorce (I'm on the start of a divorce right now), I for one would advocate that men should avoid marriage at all costs. Whether you have children or not (I don't) the court can easily compel you to pay a large, fixed amount of support for a very long time. Even if your ex is healthy, educated, physically able, and holds a regular job. And thus, your power to determine your own destiny has been stolen by the court. What if I want to become a sheep-herder, or a starving artist, or whatever? I cannot, because the court has decreed I must pay. I must be a miserable wonk slaving away for the almighty dollar so I can give it to my ex. What if I did have children and decided that it's better for them to see a father who loves his life and work, even if it does mean they're going to have to live a lower standard of living? If I'm compelled to pay a fixed amount then I don't get to choose how much and how best to support and teach my children. The court cares only about dollars, first for the children (if any), then for the ex, and not at all for the man's self-determination, satisfaction, and quality as a role model for others.
--JA
06/02

As someone who just ended a 1.5 year relationship for the classic "she wants to commit, he doesn't" reason, god, how friggin depressed do I feel to read all these comments. I just hope that for every anti-establishment, marriage-is-a-social-construct-bullshit-institution arguement I read, there are two people out there who disagree. "Do what YOU want", "its not about society", its such naive bullshit. You do live in a society, or are you writing from the Arctic Circle? Social rights, financial rights, are you so anti-establishment that you don't think those are important considerations? Is everyone too intellectual, too smart for marriage? Please read David Brooks' new one called On Paradise Drive. One of his observations on our America: the pioneer spirit breeds never being satisfied. Always looking for the bigger better deal. Never appreciating the life you have. Newsflash: the grass is NOT always greener, there is no perfection. Our generation is LAZY. Marriage is a responsibility, it takes some work and some compromise, but you do it because there is a great reward in having a partnership with this person you love. Maybe all of these negative comments are from people who really don't love themselves and are too scared to imagine committing to someone and having someone commit to them. Do all of these folks really want to be alone? Believe me, I've been single a lot in my twenties and now here in my early thirties. I know how to make myself happy (on many levels) and I know how to be alone. While all my friends were in long term relationships I was single and figuring myself out. I know myself, I've got my own identity. But when the right person comes along, not the perfect person, because that doesn't exist, and not my soul mate, b/c I don't believe in that either, but the right person, when he comes along, I want to make it a permanent bond, a permanent connection. I believe it is possible. Perhaps I am spoiled, because I have seen my very not perfect parents make it work for 35 years. And they are still going strong. So if there are any other optimists out there, please know you are not alone. Life is what you make out of it. Marriage is what you make out of it, what you put in. I am no Polyanna, in fact I've been called a misanthrope and a cynic, yet this is something I still believe. Think I'm naive? Sue me and my half-full glass.
--sr
06/02

I personally have not tried the marriage game yet but those I know who have find divorce a better option, and it sometimes makes the couples friends again. In the future maybe marriage should be, if done, short term contracts with the option of renewal. And also there should not be restrictions on what sex you or your partener is, allow people the option of being with who the want. Also remove the politians from the marriage game if the want something to do send them of to a war.
--GR
06/02

I LOVE beign married because it means my shithead parents finally take me seriously; they even send us money. MONEY. (!) go figure.
--AM
06/01

Marriage, eh. Why not just get lobotomized early on in your youth? save a lot on pain, mate. Just be together, get a civil union so you can sign for one aother's bodies in the city morgue.
--FE
06/01

marriage.... domne that, ben there. what a load of CRAP.
--un
06/01

DIVORCE
--mm
06/01

Marriage is a personal thing. We're way overpopulated as is. I don't feel it's anyone's responsiblity to delineate or rationalize the fate or the purpose or the anthropology of marriage. I skimmed the article, why 'socialize' the personal. Please, if you can't figure out who to sleep with when and under what circumstances, don't vocalize. But perhaps I'm biased. I foresee no tromp down the isle, never have. But really. Failed marriages and irresponsiblities should be taken care of on a personal level and not with some enormous social outcry. For godsake, keep the hut clean and pick your own gnats.
--Non
05/31

The future of marriage is dependant on the abilities and discipline of its enterers insofar as they may refrain from straying from the loyalty implicated in its strictures. The imaginations of men and women, parting the crescent of romance and instilling the truth about marriage in that it is a test of one man or one woman�s dedication to another in the same way that Jesus, for example, may have loved a leper. It is to strip the flesh that determines the personality and seeing and loving the soul at its core. It is to disregard the ego. It is to know as David Deida (in The Way of the Superior Man) says of men that �A man should hear his woman�s complaints as warning bells, and then do his best to align his life with his truth and purpose.� It is not my place to dictate nor presume to know the purpose of women in light of the union only that as a man and in my role, the future of marriage is predicated on our abilities to fulfill our truth and purpose.
--MS
05/31

Same as before. We knock it around plenty but there is no better institution - that is, if you want to spend the rest of your life in an institution. People will continue to get married. Many of them even stay married. Voluntarily. I was married before. I learned the hard way that I got married for the wrong reasons. I had poor dating screening skills. Once I learned more about myself - who I was & who I wasn't - I then had better knowledge as far as looking for the right traits in women I dated. Eventually, I found my basherte. We've been married for a year now, and I love every moment of being together. It's also been exactly five years since my first so-called marriage ended. Everything that applies this time did not apply last time and vice versa. For those of you who are still searching and questionning your dating skills, check out or buy Dating For Dummies. It helped me a lot.
--DJW
05/30

AHHHHHHHH! Jonathan Ames, for someone who taught at a Midwestern University, still comes off sounding very dumb about the Midwest (and dumb in general). First, the age of marriage in the Midwest is climbing, not dropping. It�s just not climbing very fast. We (yes, I said 'we') get married earlier than 'city folk' because, like it or not, we're a more traditional society than the 'progressives' up in the big city. It has nothing to do with AIDS- in the minds of most Midwesterners, AIDS is a city problem (which is admittedly inaccurate, but that's the common attitude out here in the hinterlands). Not to mention that when we get a girl pregnant, we often marry her- not necessarily right, but certainly contributing to the early marriage stats. This is what really irks me- the early marriage Ames 'found' in the Midwest is much more representative of the rest of the country than the New York �never get married thing�. His viewpoint is suffering from the tunnel vision of so many people who move to New York (or grow up there) and forget there's a whole country outside the city limits- a country that is, in many ways, very different. Even more frustrating is the fact that he's also forgetting a whole world within New York City- I seriously doubt the immigrants which make up so much of the population are significantly changing their marriage behavior, yet his sweeping statements really don't take this into consideration. So really what he's saying is that white, educated, liberal people in NYC are no longer getting married. Well, that's too bad, but luckily we white, liberal Midwesterners with our beautiful, liberal wives (and husbands) will just make more little liberals that can move to NYC and fill the vacuum. Hopefully they�ll be better critical thinkers than Jonathan Ames. Speaking of critical thinking: while I, for the record, am all in favor of gay and lesbian marriage, it would have been interesting to see a structured presentation of the case against it. It�s hard to take a debate seriously when only one side is represented, no matter how much you agree with that side.
--JMR
05/30

As it looks like we are coming into the end times people are starting to think about their immortal souls and about "living in sin". I feel that if that is their reason to get married, they should run fast and far. If they are truly united in love and spirit, then do you. To some folk, that piece of paper makes it real. Being able to love someone and know that they feel the same and do not feel complete without you in their life is what is real for me. That paper is not important to me. The sacrament of marriage is. Once done in the Lord's name, it should be seen as permanent.I still question the going to the priest for counselling thing. How can a man who is celibate and never experienced married life really tell anyone what to do? He hasn't been there. I believe people will continue to get married because it is something that is ultimately what human nature, society and religion demands. It means you are a grownup now, no matter how long it took. I'm 55 and still not grown even though I am a grandma.
--RLR
05/30

Marriage is ok to give legitimacy rights to offspring. They're entitled to that. Otherwise who needs it? I'm currently seeing a woman half my age. I enjoy her company and she provides the kind of sex I enjoy. I'm not sure I fully understant all of her motivation, but she definitely enjoys the sexual part. It's a very big deal for both of us. Marriage is certainly not on her agenda (with anyone), so the age difference issue does't arise. I'm of modest means, so she can't be interested in my money. I'm a little bit intellectual, she's not...but of very good heart. A lung problem limits my activities; she doesn't care. Conclusion, she likes me. What more can I say! Lucky SOB,aren't I! Of course being a typical male, I can't help but wonder if there are other women out there like that? Oh, and by the way, she's a real looker. Younger men hit on her all the time. Go figure!
--MMF
05/30

Sex was good for 19 years of my 22 year marriage but betrayal and infidelity crept in- on her part. I think women abandon passion and love and romance as they get older and look for power and money. Maybe it is biological, we have a million years of evolution making all of us fools in love,--We are All fools in love-- My theory- older men like younger women Not for the obvious but because younger women are still romantic and let their hearts lead them-- older women are concerned with how much money, how much power, how much security and is someone going to have the resources to take care of them when they're old. Yes, marriage is great when it works-- the young only need marriage if they raise childen, if not, they don't need it. The old-- not a biological necessity- but a comfort.
--RE
05/29

Sex was good for 19 years of my 22 year marriage but betayal and infidelity crept in- on her part. I think women abandon passion and love and romance as they get older and look for power and money. Maybe it is biological, we have a million years of evolution making all of us fools in love,--We are All fools in love-- My theory- older men like younger women Not for the obvious but because younger women are still romantic and let their hearts lead them-- older women are concerned with how much money, how much power, how much security and is someone going to have the resources to take care of them when they're old. Yes, marriage is great when it works-- the young only need marriage if they raise childen, if not, they don't need it. The old-- not a biological necessity- but a comfort.
--RE
05/29

I feel that marriage is an obsolete religious and sociopolitical institution. It was set up by religion and government when they were essentially the same thing (not that Bush isn't trying to reinstate that) as a way of controlling the peasants and making sure that plenty of farmworkers and soldiers would be born. Now, religion still uses it to control people, and politicians use it as a lever to gain votes. Bottom line: some people show their love for each other by signing a contract; some people show their love for each other by not needing to sign a contract.
--TJ
05/29

I say there shall be no more marriage. Those that are married already--all but one--shall live. The rest shall keep as they are.
--WS
05/29

Being somewhat unconventional anyway, my girlfriend and I spent quite a bit of time pondering the question. In the end all of our thought on it eventually paid off. We broke up. Since we didn't take it lightly and we knew a lot of people who under some delusion picked a partner that no one could quite understand. I am 33, and I have to say, culturally I am primed to be married and have kids by now, but I am not ready. I may never be and as long as I haven't found someone whom I REALLY can see myself with for the rest of my life, then I guess I just need to count my blessing that I was smart enough (or dumb enough) to not rush into it, like so many people seem to do. I am not sure if it is personal or has something to do with my generations collective upbringing, but I don't feel like I am done growing up yet. Why should I subject someone else to that crap, it's hard enough on me!
--EL
05/28

It is doomed because its dissolution under U.S. law is too traumatic, expensive, and guarantees destruction of all feeling and communication one partner may have had for the other. There needs to be put in place an automatic pre-nup which applies to all marriages and covers all contingencies.
--F.F.
05/27

Got married at 22. Divorced at 24. And you know what? I'm really not sure there is an institution in this nation that is truly functioning. You could say it was the man I was married to- a person who promised MORE than he was willing to follow-through with, who decided that the women hanging out at shows were up for grabs since his unhappy wife at home wasn't giving it up, or that went willingly unemployed with a mortgage and bills to pay. But you know what? I liked being able to leave that behind- wouldn't trade divorce for that world again. But when does this institution go from flawed to tolerable again? We ARE the slacker generation- not sure we've ever done anything right- and now we're helping the nation's divorce rates climb. Maybe we're not up for "working on things" as hard as our parents/grandparents did, maybe we're stupider for marrying people that aren't our "best match", or maybe we're just growing out of an institution that was built on the fact that men and women needed eachother for different reasons than they do in "this day and age."
--KA
05/27

Such wonderful theater! Scott Halzman gets great marks for his portrayal of the Hilariously Out-of-touch Zealot. Ethan Watters also deserves praise for his sensitive portrayal of the Self-Serving Marriage Apologist. Bravo, boys! Heaven awaits!
--EB
05/27

I think marriage does have a future beyond its �normal� role i.e. that of procreation. I am married for the past 8 years, don�t have any kids, and I can honestly say that my marriage has made these past 8 years absolutely amazing. Is it a struggle? No. It is not one anything. It has moments where there is work involved and it has moments where everything is smooth and easy. However, if one were to look in purely clinical terms, on the whole it is a great positive experience. People will say that one can have this kind of relationship without getting married, that you don�t need a piece of paper to �legitimize� a relationship. I tend to disagree because it is not about validation and it is not about a piece of paper. It�s about a connection that comes from being married. Admittedly, this is not a connection that everyone feels but, having spoken to other people, enough people feel it to make this a �legitimate movement�. That is what will make marriage survive. That feeling. Ironically, the survival of something that is based on piece of paper comes down to feelings.
--AH
05/27

Yes.
--mstb
05/27

am i the only one that sees molly and maggie's pictures mixed up? surely not
--
05/26

My hope for the future of marriage is that it won't have to do *so* much for people. Your spouse shouldn't be the only close freind you have, or the only one you share work and play with on a daily basis. We have bigger fish to fry than tinkering with marriage-- our social lives are so impoverished as adults with jobs and children. Anybody else feel this way?
--sbs
05/26

To Alicia, Erian, Well, I've read your articles for the most part, sometimes feeling your pain as I've recently ended a 15 year realtionship after a long struggle of a separation for 2 years. After about 10K in Therapy, numerous self help classes and such the thing that got me over the hump was a little book called "Too good to leave, too bad to stay". Check it out. Amazing for a book to have such words of wisdom. I hope you find a way to blossom again. Neal Rayner gonealgo@yahoo.com
--nr
05/25

I think marriage is something we ought to do for ourselves rather than the state or for some phoney religious ideal. A marriage is a commitment to a relationship and those involved ought to make up their own vows, etc. There's no need for the State or Church to be involved. Family and friends should be more than enough. The above also applies to same sex marriages. Love knows no boundaries.
--EMac
05/25

I do believe in marriage, but I think the author and her husband need to end it. I have never experienced a man that didn't want to have sex all the time. After 8 years the sex life should still be good - yes it is a sympton of problems. I am sort of struggling with the same thing the author is, except the sex is still good. I'm just at the neurotic stage of is this is the right person for me - although he seems so right in so many ways.
--LA
05/25

It's human nature to want to claim other people, to make them somehow "ours." We want our boy/girlfriend, our best friend, our drinking buddies, our gang. It's only natural that we'd want a mate, someone that we mark as more important to us than anyone else. A word that sums up all the feelings and connections we have with that person. Maybe the word won't be husband or wife any longer... maybe we'll find something different. But marriage (the romantic, lovey definition, not the legal one) will go on forever. Now, the legalities? I agree with Ms. Cho... they adapt or they die out.
--MK
05/25

I have to look ahead hopefully on marriage right now. I am about to turn 23 and I am planning a wedding for 2005. But I am not planning a typical life of setting up a household and struggling with bills and being isolated from extended family and overwhelmed with children. I am planning a lifetime with extneded family living in one home. My mother my fiancee and I have lived together for two years and plan to continue indefinetly. There are only benefits in a conscientious relationship where privacy is respected. (If you want to skeeve me out tell me I am entering a 3-way marriage with my mom) The financial and emotional support system we are building should enable us to live in a better home, do fewer chores, enjoy our future children more fully and pursue our careers. Ok I do want it all but I am willing to look outside the traditional notions of family and marriage to attain it. It takes a lot of paitence and a sense of humor, obviously to even suggest it. Someone told me I was basically creating a commune or cult. But look at it this way For me I have a built it support system to answer my questions (mom) and to free me up to spend quality time with my husband and a mothering guide and role model. My fiance gets more time with me, a less stressed wife, less responsibility for having a career, and a yard saling partener. My mother gets people to do the heavy lifting, to go out to dinner with her or make her dinner when she doesn't feel like cookinh. She has a future of loving close grandchildren who aren't 24/7 her responsibility. She can live outside the means of a state pension and have time to write her novel. Ah I may be crazy. But it seems like the baby boomers ( my mom) whose marriages have failed, or disintegrated are still seeking a support system- they still want all the perks. Generation Y as it were is seeking stability, forward thinking about the consequneces of excessive greed or excessive granola-ness. Instead of lost 20 somethings coming back home lost 50 and 60 somethings are the ones who are coming home. Maybe.
--BSG
05/25

I can definitely understand about The Struggle. I'm in the final stages of my first hopefully only divorce. I spent the better part of 3 years coping with, adapting to and working around my husband, constantly punishing myself and blaming myself for his lack of action or responsibility. I made the big mistake when I went along with making the relationship legal after two years. I always swore that when I got married it would be once and forever, that I wouldn't repeat my parents multiple-marriage mistakes, but in the process I married the wrong guy for me and only punished myself. So I put up with a lot, sacrificed a lot, and worst of all, bit my tongue...a lot. I thought that this was all part of the "sacrifices" involved with marriage. So I readily subjugated my will to his and found myself angry, bitter and taken for granted. Given, he's no angel, but I should've spoken up more. He still wants to work things out and try again after the divorce is final, but I know I'll fall into the same pattern of denial and loathing. He and I probably would've made better friends, but with no further involvement. He's strong willed and I'm given to bending to people like that rather than dealing with them head on. Just not a healthy way to be. I understand about relationships being work, being a struggle, but I think it should be a joyful struggle, that you work as a team to get thru difficulties and trials. Sure, you're two independent people, but you work through problems together. Otherwise, you may as well be roommates with benefits. I don't view my marriage as a total failure, more of a training wheels, maturing process. I'm not a big fan of learning the hard way, but in some instances I think it was necessary. I'm much more of a whole, independent person now. I'm in a new relationship, but unlike before, I'm taking it slow and appreciating every day. I'm also sticking up for myself and working for a healthy relationship, not for a semblence of one. And yes, its a joyful struggle, like when you're enjoying a beer after a hot day of moving furniture.
--tja
05/25

I love this article, at least, what I have read thus far. I had to stop reading after the first few paragraphs; can only digest something so poignant & familiar to me in small doses. I will undoubtedly be seeking out more of her work.
--rko
05/25

I don't know about the marriage thing anymore, I am pretty jaded about the whole concept. I was a great husband, and my ex she was a pretty good wife, problem was that the 2 miscarriages she had kind of ruined it for us. I made sure everything was ok with her and did everything for her, but everyone failed to realize that I was going through my own struggle because of it. Ultimatly, this led to our divorce. I look back now and its true what they say, you dont know what you have until it's gone. My own turmoil should not have included her, it was something I should have gotten over. She suffered more than I did and it took me a long time to realize that. Because of the miscarriages I became bitter at the world and at her, it wasn't her fault it was mine. We talk every so often and sometimes i wish i can go back and make her happy like i use to, but I know it will never happen. All I can hope for is for her to find someone who will make her happy.
--AR
05/25

WOW, I hope I'll never end like Alicia Erian... she scared of divorce because you can discover that outside there aren't enough better men... it's sad. Her unkle is ok, she and her husband are clinical... I struggled for 1 year of 5 of marriage, I was still in love, but I love also me much more than anything. I stopped the struggle, and after a year of pain, I rise again, love again, have good sex again... love & love yourself db
--d.b.
05/25

My hope is that one day marriage will be completely about a legal relationship and have nothing whatsoever to do with sex. It is of great benefit to have this kind of legal agreement available to people. It would be prohibitively expensive for many people to have a lawyer set up an agreement that covered all the same things that marriage does. What I don't understand, is why it needs to involve a romantic relationship. What if my two sisters and I lived in a house together for our entire adult lives? We could support each other through education (1 or 2 working while the others are at school), raise our children together (adopted or otherwise) and have very strong loving relationships with each other that were not in any way sexual. In this situation, my sisters should be entitled to my pension and my benefits if I am working and they are at home caring for my children or caring for my home. If one of us fell ill she should be fully supported by the others as a dependent. Why shouldn't we be able to be married in a strictly legal sense? What is the relevant difference? We're committed to each other. We take care of each other. We raise children together. Just because we aren't in a romantic relationship we shouldn't be entitled to any of the benefits of marriage?
--VNY
05/25

Going in the direction that marriage truly is: a legal bond. More pre-nups, etc.
--CGH
05/24

Marriage is a human, cultural institution. I do not understand all the claims that it is "sacred." How realistic is it for two people to live happily together for 60 or 70 years? People change and grow, or they should. I'm just not sure why we must insist on lifetime marriages. I know that it is best for children to have two happy parents. But if the children have been raised or there aren't any children, and you've been together for a long time, and the relationship is simply dead (it happens a lot) why must two people stay together? It's a real question - I really don't get it.
--ba
05/24

is there any future for humankind? if so marriage will be there in a form not yet foreseeable.
--gmf
05/24

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