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February 7, 2012
Elizabeth Wollman, 42
Author of The Theater Will Rock: A History of the Rock Musical, from Hair to Hedwig
Assistant professor of music, Baruch College
Do you think your being a women's studies professor and a feminist leads to preconceptions of who you are or what your own sexuality is?
I'm sure that they do, but I don't care. We say "feminist" and people immediately think of a ball-busting, man-hating, hairy-legged bitch. That's the immediate reaction to "feminist," or at least it was in the '70s. Then, of course, we can talk about the stereotypes of female professors, which I always find hilarious. There's this idea of professors where the men are wearing tweed, smoking pipes, and fucking their students, and the women are sexless, friendless, crones who are devoted entirely to their work.
Do you think there's an increasing conservatism in our culture?
You know, I think it's going in different directions. The fact that people can't say "cunt" in mixed company really pisses me off. We can say "dick" and "cocksucker" all the time. I've heard people use that in front of their children, for god's sake. To call somebody a dick, nobody even blinks, but to demonize the vagina the way that people do is so upsetting to me. But, one of the things I argue in my book is that people weren't really as comfortable with out-there sexuality in the '70s as we like to think. I feel we like to romanticize that.
On that note, what is your favorite euphemism for the word "vagina?"
I think my favorite word for the vagina is "vagina." I do find myself fascinated with the word "cunt" because people get so unbelievably freaked out by it. I think from a cultural perspective that the reason people get so freaked out by it is because anything related to the vagina, we're taught to think that it's gross, bad, and vile, whereas anybody can be a "dick." But if you're going to talk about a vagina, I'm going to say the word "vagina." I really don't go in for the whole "let's make up cute little words for our genitalia" thing. I think that takes away any kind of mystique about them; they're a part of our bodies and we should embrace our bodies.
As a woman who's interested in music and sexuality, what do you think is the sexiest music?
A lot of people would listen to the music I grew up with and immediately think "There's nothing feminist about that," but I really like classic rock. I think Led Zeppelin is fantastic; I like The Who. I find Joni Mitchell endlessly fascinating, but maybe not sexy. K.D Lang just jumped into my head; she's got this glowing, rich voice and she sounds so incredibly self-assured and she's so open about who she is, you know? Led Zeppelin has been always kind of tainted, like, "Oh they're so sexist! They sing about having sex and that's so sexist!" But Susan Fast wrote a book about Zeppelin that was basically saying, "What the hell? Women like to have sex too! Why is that inherently sexist?"
My girlfriend wants me to stop watching porn because it makes her uncomfortable. I don't want to. What should I do?
You should start by reading Linda Williams' excellent book, Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the "Frenzy of the Visible." Then, have your girlfriend read it. Then, discuss it. Perhaps the book will sway one, the other, or both of you, and allow you to find a healthy, happy middle ground.
In regards to your own love/sex life, what's one class you wish you could take/could've taken? What's one class you wish you could teach all your former partners?
I regret not ever having taken a course on Shakespeare, but that has less to do with sex than the fact that I was an English major who never took a course on Shakespeare. And as for the class for my former partners? Easy: conflict resolution.
Commentarium (26 Comments)
Two in Manhattan and one about 20 miles outside the city. Not very geographically diverse, this sample.
This was a refreshing read for this series. However quaint people find the local yokels to be, their stories resemble each others quickly.
I like the third lady. And dislike the new Nerve comment-posting Captcha requirement.
Waaaaaaah. Go home and cry in your mommys breast, you pillow biting wanker.
"My girlfriend wants me to stop watching porn because it makes her uncomfortable. I don't want to. What should I do?
You should start by reading Linda Williams' excellent book, Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the "Frenzy of the Visible." Then, have your girlfriend read it. Then, discuss it. "
Where, outside a women's studies department, can a personal problem be solved with enough navel-gazing and deconstruction of post-colonial narratives in modern pornography?
You may be surprised to know that a lot of people, perhaps most people, don't mind to read one book in an effort to get a different perspective. And after reading that book, they may discuss it with their partner; relationships do, after all, involve quite a bit of conversation. I thought this was good advice on Prof. Wollmann's part.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with any Women's Studies dept. I have no college education, am a female in my early twenties, and work in a call center. Every time someone asks me if I'm "reading something for school," I want to scream. Books are for everyone, not just students!
Good on you, Jess! Rule number one about reading is: read what you want to. There are no other rules.
I think that "Women's Studies" is not in fact exclusive to women... I have my own views on women's issues and I'm a guy, so much so that I write a blog titled "What's up with women?" http://whatsupwithwomen.com/ - Unraveling that which makes WOMEN incomprehensible and MEN are afraid to explore.
"To call somebody a dick, nobody even blinks, but to demonize the vagina the way that people do is so upsetting to me."
God, what persecuted bullshit. I mean for real... give me a fucking break. People don't say cunt because it's a deadly insult. I don't know a single woman who won't get visibly angry if you call them a cunt - even the ones who are normally amazingly relaxed and fun.
Women have villianized the word cunt, it's not out of some fucking vaginal fear.
I see it exactly the opposite of what she says: isn't it more of a problem that no one sees calling someone a dick as a problem? Why is saying cunt a bigger insult? Why is that word more sacred than the one for male genitalia?
Agreed, but that's a different kettle of fish. Don't you see? Men are still fair game for insults, derision, being dismissed. Listen to TV and radio commercials, who's usually playing the role of dupe, doofus, inept bumbler? Yup. I don't hear any "feminists" griping about that. Remember men, many women still hold sacred the "Equal but Special" clause!
@language -- Actually, most people who care about gender equality have a problem with this idiotic and inaccurate portrayal of men too. See, how it works is that if we all just pretend that men are inept morons -- particularly when it comes to traditionally female tasks like cooking, cleaning, and taking care of children -- then they don't have to do any of that stuff! Obviously, women are just so much better at those things so they should do them, rather than have men screw it up, right? Oddly, you don’t really see any commercials or TV shows joking about men being inept, bumbling doofuses when it comes to things like, say, leading companies, making financial decisions, or fighting wars… weird, huh?
This has more extreme consequences when people believe the whole women-are-morally-superior-to-men line too, taking the form of anything from slut-shaming to honor killings. Men just can’t control themselves, but women should know better!
I don’t happen to agree with this professor’s perspective on the word “cunt” (I don’t feel like anyone gains much by calling each other male OR female genital names). I can kind of see where she’s coming from, but it’s really annoying and counterproductive to focus on bullshit like that when there are real problems, which consequently don’t get taken seriously because they get associated with aforementioned bullshit.
This seem terribly complicated - here I thought that a cunt was where my dick went.
You know . . . usually.
Dr Lisa you are 80's hot in those cat-eye glasses! Sounds like you have 'splored a bit but if you still like guys I'll be in the city next week; lets bump uglies!
A bit of academic wankery aside, this was one of the better reads in the series.
As an aside on porn: is there a good source for porn that's neither amateur nor horribly fake acting? I like real orgasms in my porn as much as in real life.
There's feminist porn and "women friendly" porn, which is soo good and way hot! It's not boring or fake at all, it's people actually enjoying themselves. Look it up! It's not just for women, I don't know why they call it women-friendly. It's just people enjoying having sex.
You mean there's tax money supporting something called "women's studies?"
No tax dollars have ever been spent on women's studies?--but fortunately many universities have ponied up the cash for women's studies. Possibly you are feigning ignorance vis-a-vis feminism on college campuses, but your ignorance of the usage of the quotation mark is verifiable.
Oh, yeah? So public universities don't have women's studies departments?
You mean there are still people who are so uneducated, intellectually limited, and contemptuous of women that they do not realize that women's studies is a legitimate academic discipline, that it has been recognized as such globally, and has been for decades?
so in an effort to get away from 'old feminism' you want to empower yourselves to see who is the biggest slut and jill off to porno (which is quite often misogynistic,racist and a gazillion other things)?? And you so called sex positive femitards wonder why no one takes you hypocrites seriously? GTFOH
Duh, you are delusional. No rational person could have come to those conclusions after reading these. You are just revealing your own sexual pathology and discomfort with women's sexualities. Go to therapy.
Too bad you didn't interview (former) academics Germaine Greer and Christina Hoff Sommers.
Though it *is* bad and suspect that 'cunt' is much less acceptable to say in public, I wouldn't say that it's a good idea to use it whenever just to be contrary. There are a lot of women who have heard 'bitch', 'slut' and 'cunt' used over and over again in very vicious ways and, yeah, I don't think they'd want to suddenly have to relive those experiences by hearing it said suddenly. It's different when it's reclaimed, but still, use some sensitivity.
Not really very illuminating, unless you live under a rock.
It is unfortunate that this article reproduces the stereotype that all feminists - and all professors other than Cornell West - are white. There are women of color who are teaching women's studies all over the country and the world, yet none of them were interviewed for this article despite the fact that multiple professors were included. Furthermore, none of those professors seem to have asked, "Hey are you interviewing any non-white women for this article?" This saddens me as this might have shifted the results and reveals much about their sensibilities. These interviews are interesting. However, I would have appreciated a bit more diversity.