Not a member? Sign up now
Bush speechwriter blames marijuana, not guns, for Arizona shooting
By Ray RahmanJanuary 11th, 2011, 4:15 pmComments (88)
Like many people across the country, conservative pundit and former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum has some thoughts on the recent tragedy in Arizona. However, his thoughts are not like most's thoughts:
After horrific shootings, we hear calls for stricter regulation of guns. The Tucson shooting should remind us why we regulate marijuana.
Jared Lee Loughner, the man held as the Tucson shooter, has been described by those who know as a "pot smoking loner."
He had two encounters with the law, one for possession of drug paraphernalia.
He goes on to argue that Loughner's affection for weed, when combined with his mental illness, worsened the situation — that things may not have been as bad had drugs been cut out of the equation.
But hey, you know what really would've made things less deadly if it had been out of the picture? Guns — the absence of guns would've made things much, much, much, much less shitty for everybody involved.
Commentarium (88 Comments)
Wait a minute... People high on pot are not prone to acts of violence; they're prone to acts of silence... puff, puff, pass...
Weed relaxes you, it doesn't make you go kill a bunch of innocent people. If he blamed crack, yeah ok I might agree.
I see Frum is still a paid professional liar.
The shooter was described as a "potsmoking loner" years before this happened. Besides...did he SHOOT people with reefer?
His mother was a legendary Canadian journalist. She must be rolling in her grave.
If anything, this kid needed more weed. I am not a drug advocate AT ALL -- but I know that getting high tends to get in the way of accomplishing goals (demented or otherwise).
Damn, you're right. In fact man... I meant to comment on this 6 months ago... and never got around to it...
@TorontoMD - I'm with you on that one. Barbara is no doubt spinning at the stupidity of her offspring.
Not trying to echo what Jon Stewart said, but blaming everything under the sun isn't going to solve problems like this in the future. It's especially despicable of Frum to exploit a national tragedy to push his own unrelated political agenda. Is it even worth pointing out how many "potsmoking loners" there are who *don't* assassinate their representatives?
In interviews with a friend of his, it was suggested that Loughner had quit toking altogether. Schizophrenics I have known were heavy smokers - didn't seem to make any difference either way.
Not much to see here - just more BS blame and evasion - nothing to be proud of.
standard diversionary tactics to take the focus off the wingnut from alaska
I think that blaming weed here is a gross oversimplification. However (my personal feelings about pot aside) I think there have been some not-entirely-dismissible studies that suggest that marijuana may hasten the onset of or exacerbate schizophrenia that was already going to manifest because of a person's inherited genes. Like I said, I think it's dumb here to blame weed, but considering what's come out about Loughner, it's no dumber than blaming Palin or conservative rhetoric... dude was crazy and he was gonna go off. There's been absolutely no evidence to suggest that he ever saw Palin's map.
What about the multitudes of pot-smoking non-loners who don't do anything violent at all? I am not a smoker, nor do I consider it a particularly worthwhile activity, but this guy is just grabbing at straws.
It is not out of the realm of possibility that it could exacerbate schizophrenic symptoms -- some of the symptoms have been tied to malfunctioning cannabinoid receptors in the brain -- but only in relatively few patients with specific types of the disorder. Also, the studies done so far are still being fleshed out by follow-ups. It is all very preliminary, and certainly not enough to base sweeping generalizations like this on.
wait a minute...marijuana is regulated so what good did that do...lol
I'll think you will find it had more to do with the psychotropic, MKULTRA style, experiments the US is conducting on both its own people and people from ethnic minorities across the world.
All is revealed:
http://deepthought.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/11/5811166-can-a-satellite...
You know what I blame for violence? Neckties. Neckties, if tied tight enough block blood flow to the brain. Bad things happen when people wear neckties, especially weird looking spotted neckties. Neckties similar to the necktie that Mr. Frum is pictured wearing. Be very careful citizens, Mr. Frum may start killing people as well, all becuase of his necktie.
The only victims of a pot-induced rampage are snacks like cheetos. What's next, a report that he broke his mother's back when he stepped on a crack. Or the time he dared a kid to drink soda and eat pop rocks, causing the kid to explode. I heard that time, he just watched and made a face at him, which stuck permanently.
What an idiotic comment at the end of this article. You realize the only way that doesn't sound idiotic is if you're effectively wishing for guns to never have been invented, right?
Because, well, they have. And passing more restrictive laws? You think that's going to help? Look at the law on marijuana and recall that he as alleged a frequent pot smoker, then look at all your friends that ARE frequent pot smokers (I know several of mine are, and I don't run in 'those kinds' of circles, either, the shit is mainstream now and has been for a while) and think about just how EASY it is to get marijuana in this day and age, despite decade upon decade and over a trillion dollars of drug war expenditure.
Then try to apply that same stellar contraband-fighting record to firearms.
Idiot. Wish into one hand and piss into the other and see which fills up faster. Meanwhile, I'll be wearing gloves.
If he is going to leap from one subject to another then I notice how he doesn't mention a thing about how unregulated alcohol is - alcohol of course being a know and scientifically proven drug which causes mood swings and irrational thought. Marijuana on the other hand is known and scientifically proven to give you the munchies and feel relaxed and calm. It seems to me that if everyones weekend pastime was to smoke pot instead of get drunk then there would be a lot less violent crime in the world. Note: I don't drink and I don't smoke and even I, a complete outsider, can see how idiotic this guys statements are in support of idiotic laws.
Lancet. 1987 Dec 26;2(8574):1483-6.
Cannabis and schizophrenia. A longitudinal study of Swedish conscripts.
Andréasson S, Allebeck P, Engström A, Rydberg U.
Karolinska Institutet, Department of Social Medicine, Huddinge, Sweden.
Abstract
The association between level of cannabis consumption and development of schizophrenia during a 15-year follow-up was studied in a cohort of 45,570 Swedish conscripts. The relative risk for schizophrenia among high consumers of cannabis (use on more than fifty occasions) was 6.0 (95% confidence interval 4.0-8.9) compared with non-users. Persistence of the association after allowance for other psychiatric illness and social background indicated that cannabis is an independent risk factor for schizophrenia.
Due to the extremely limited understanding of schizophrenia onset, It's fundamentally unprovable at this time that smoking pot causes or contributes to schizophrenia. I'll admit -- about as equally unprovable as the other side of this theory's coin, which is that those developing schizophrenia are more likely to self-medicate with cannabis than non-schizophrenics. There may be a correlation, but is it the chicken or the egg that is the causation? Until much more is learned about the brain, this is an interesting avenue for exploration, but a complete non-argument when it comes to mental health and social justice policy.
Heavy pot smoking under age 18 causes the the rate of schizophrenia to TRIPLE.
The studies posted above and hundreds of other journal peer reviewed medical studies show this.
But the pot industry and the pot legalization movement is huge and profitable and growing and is trying to cover up and ridicule this information up exactly like big tobacco did by denying for decades that cigarettes caused lung cancer.
bullshit did you get that from paid propaganda
Dear lord, you republicans really know how to turn things upside down, don't you?
What a Fu$&@n; loser I mean come on. We can't help it that he always got ripped off on every bag he tried to buy as a kid and now he's hatin... He's just mad that people can finally get high legally and his job Proably won't allow him to smoke...... Fag Bahahaha
Does anyone really disagree that heavy pot smoking is bad for children's developing brains ?
Do even the pro-legalization activists claim massive amounts of pot would not be harmful for kids ?
That is what these medical studies linking adolescent pot use to adult schizophrenia are talking about.
Little kids, young teenagers, using a powerful hallucinogenic on a daily basis for prolonged periods
I do not find it difficult to buy the idea that some small percentage of these kids who spent their whole childhoods wasted out of their minds eventually as a result flip out as adults and go bonkers and some even end up hurting other people.
Well, it didn't fucking harm me, you son of a bitch! Now shaddup or I'm gonna come over there and drill you right between the eyes!
What a Fu$&@"g loser... He's just mad that he got ripped off on every bag he tried to buy as a kid..... And because people can get high legally and his job Proably won't allow him to smoke Fag Bahahaha
Of course it was pot that made him do it. And of course it was guns that made him do it. God forbid either David Frum or Ray Rahman could actually assign any responsibiliy to Jared Lee Loughner for making the decision on his own, for whatever his own twisted reasons. Someone has to pay, and clearly that someone is the demographic you least identify with. Personally, I think preachy polarizing hypocrisy is the cause of this tragedy, and that both Frum and Rahman should be held accountable.
Pol Pot, Jenny McCarthy is calling and she'd like her faulty logic back...
How is this guy credible, he had Bush tspeaking at a 4th grade level and people trust what he thinks?
Who are these people who think drug laws (and even gun laws) would have stopped this person from killing? As if someone would be willing to murder but draws the line at illegally obtaining guns and drugs??? If these people are in charge of our legislation, then God please help us!
Favid frum is an obvious Guido. Organized Crime. Mafia....you get the idea. total scum
What is David Frum smoking?
When you enter "Marijuana and Schizophrenia" at PubMed, you get 687 hits. Enter "Alcohol and Schizophrenia" and you get 2794 hits. So, pol pot, since research seems to turn up many more correlations involving alcohol shouldn't that be banned before demonizing marijuana?
Uh, flawed logic. Even if drugs enhanced his paranoid delusions or yet unproven mental illness, should a drug addict have ready access to semi-automatic weapons? Should someone with "many encounters with the law" be able to run around with a glock purchased easily at a gun shop? Should that not raise one red flag at the check out counter?
pol pot: I don't think anyone is saying that smoking pot is good for kids. Neither is drinking alcohol, which is why we have laws preventing kids from drinking. Where I live we have legal, medical marijuana, and kids can not buy it.
However, it is insane to suggest that pot is to blame for this. This person was clearly unstable, who was watching him? Where were his parents? Surely they must have noticed that something was wrong.
Drug use may not have helped his mental state, but I think this guy had much bigger problems.
blame the atomic bomb...
after the first one, every terrorist has one!
Wow, Bush actually had speechwriters? So is it this guy who told Bush that it looked intellegent to just make up new words on the spot???... Has everyone already forgoten Bush's speeches? Apparently you did if you think this idiot has anything intellegent to say. Well if he is going to blame marijuana, i'm going to blame popcorn... And Canadians.
www.StonersR.us-knowledge, culture, legalization. hope to see you guys on the forums and livechat
www.StonersR.us- knowledge, culture, legalization. hope to see you guys on the forums and livechat
the link was wrong above
www.StonersR.us- knowledge, culture, legalization. hope to see you guys on the forums and livechat
what an idiot
So basically he is admitting that even the most harsh form of regulation (a full criminal prohibition) will not prevent anyone from using it? You can sit there and think how great things would be if marijuana were to magically disappear one day, but the fact is that criminal prohibition doesn't really stop anyone from smoking it and that is the most restrictive form of regulation there is. Time to give it up.
A former Bush speechwriter or, in other words, a retard.
Guns and pot dont kill people, People kill people, That is all there is to it. Pot is not addicting and there for does not create one to kill another.
This is THE most asinine, purposeful misinterpretation of the events leading up to this shooting so far. (Though what else we should expect from a Bush admin. Spokes-liar, or why he's given even enough credibility to be heard in the public square, I don't know.)
This man was clearly mentally ill, and was doubtlessly self-medicating in an attempt to manage his condition, as his clear paranoia concerning authority (among other things) likely kept him from seeking traditional treatment. To say otherwise is not just mistaken, but a lie with an agenda, and should not be taken seriously. This man needs to finally be told that if he has nothing constructive to say, then he needs to STFD, and STFU.
Weed is not good for people prone to schizophrenia [or any mental instabilities].
if you aint puffing please be passin
funny how bush gets to snort lines and hit the reefer, but his own former writer will use the reefer as an excuse, we cant blame palin's graphic depiction of cross hairs over democratic districts but we can blame a simple little plant.
So with his logic, there should thousands, if not millions of shootings everyday. Your ability to think critically takes a backseat to your ignorance.
Has Glenn Beck said what sister palin has to say about this yet?
Let the Propaganda begin!
thankfully in this day and age, its as easy as posting a comment below the story, to put this clueless individual in his place. The people have spoken.
Clearly he's mixing association with causation. It's garbage but he's entitled to his opinion. Oh yeah, I smoke, and have worked for a Fortune 50 for years... and I'm the most nonviolent person you'd ever meet.
custy a$$ fool...
So it seems that Reefer Madness is still alive and well.
Another example of a screwed up US mindset. I am amazed that your country isn't something out of a Mad Max movie, well not yet anyway.
Lol marijuana doesn't make you violent. Silly misinformed people. :3
According to his friend Bryce Tierney, it wasn't until he STOPPED smoking weed that he went off the deep end.
Oh no... not another liberal anti-gun story. Gimme a break. Let's get rid of guns, then next it will be knives. Myob libs crack me up. I blame the shooter, plain and simple. And maybe his father for not smacking the common sense into him
how stupid can one man get?
either he:
A) has never smoked majijuana
B) profits from businesses that oppose the legalization of marijuana
I'll pick B. Just a hunch.
Yeah, because if we took away all the guns in existence, we would be left with nothing else to kill each other with, amirite??? Oh wait....
I have yet to see anyone who can throw 31 knives in a few seconds. All those semi-automatic knife throwers running around committing massacres... RW logic is funny...
SURPRISE! If you have a mental illness, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING DRUGS!!! Don't fuck it up for the rest of us.
POT LIBEL.
He's either stupid or he's liar. Reefer madness doesn't exist. Reefer gladness reigns supreme.
Did Bush REALLY have a script writter?
I always thought Bush needed two head to be as stupid as he was!
Beermatman
http://www.beermatsadvertising.com
Right. Republicans continue to ignore research. -Prohibition has such a long history of effectiveness if Pot were illegal then J.L couldn't have had access.
David Frum is an asshole
We all know this guy was in his basement listening to Glen Beck while surfing Palin's twitter account and watching CSPAN. That's what did it to him not pot. Pot would've made him turn into a normal guy, of course.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. It's amazing that people who go to ivy league schools and have our utmost respect toward running our country can be complete and total morons. I mean seriously. This guy. This. Guy. Retarded.
Using a horrible tragedy to push an agenda. God bless you, Frum.
the only good that can come of this tragedy is that Sarah Palin disappears from public view, and with that in mind, I say..."it's all Palins fault". I'm hoping that catches on.
Very poor judgment for an individual clearly in the lime light to make such brash, purely opinionated, statements.
There was no need to bring marijuana into this debate of motives. Guess he forgot about the people that use it for medicinal reasons ie: me. I'd like to remind him the reasons a majority of people use marijuana for, in my case of point it helps me get rid of my stomach pains and help diminish my life altering anxiety. It all goes back to that saying "One bad apple ruins the bunch".
The man was crazy.
It is also crazy to insinuate that marijuana caused this tragedy.
Wow. Schizophrenics shouldn't own guns. I don't care what argument you have against gun regulation. Even though I'd like to legalize, I'm also gonna go with Schizophrenics shouldn't smoke weed either.
Yeah guns, of course. Neither of these were the problem. The fact is, in countries where gun and weapon control is normal practice, crime rates have been skyrocketing since inception. Take a look at the UK.
Mr. Frum, your mother is spinning in her grave.
absolutely right....i agree 100 percent......relax you my ass.....lol.......
Wow, the dutch probably have a lot of shootings with their lenient drug policy!
The gun issue is a red herring. Yes, there should have been checks and so on, but the man was...wait for it...crazy. Semi automatic gun, automatic transmission in a dump truck, plastic jerry can with a rag, the boy was out to do damage, nothing would have stopped that. Would the casualties been less? Hard to say. But there were warning signs that were ignored, and it's once again the system that failed and no one seems to be addressing the system.
Of course, without guns there would not be any other way for pathological criminals to kill innocent people... Really Ray? Really? News article fail.
Honestly, how can an adult actually make these statements?
banning guns and the continuing of the prohibition of marijuana wouldn't have prevented anything. Many cases around the world where guns have been banned has seen a spike in gun violence, (see UK as the most prominent example). This wasn't a murder, this was an assassination gone awry.
I blame David Frum for the shooting, not guns, not reefer, it's entirely the fault of David Frum. I wonder how he likes those apples.
He's a dork and probably doesn't get laid much. Weed is wonderful... puff...puff...pass... :) PEACE.
yeah, the absence of guns would have made it much less shitty for everyone... and the absence of unhappiness would make it happier for everyone...here's a concept for you kuntscab raham - now try to stay with me here, mmmkay? perhaps, maybe just maybe, NEITHER guns nor weed were to blame...(still with me? i knew you could...) maybe, just maybe JARED was to blame! hmm, whaddaya think, genius? or are you still quivering in your wee cotton socks from fear of inanimate objects?
"kuntscab rahman" i mean... whatever an asshole is an asshole no matter how you spell it...you say "potato", i say "potato"...