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Transgender boy allowed to join Girl Scouts
By Jeff MillsOctober 27th, 2011, 1:45 pmComments (68)
Seven-year-old Bobby Montoya of Denver, Colorado, who dresses in traditionally feminine clothing and enjoys playing with traditionally feminine toys (a certain Curb Your Enthusiasm episode featuring a sewing machine comes to mind), has been allowed to join the Girl Scouts after having initially been denied registration by a local troop leader. Bobby's mother, Felisha Archuleta, who says her son has identified as a girl since about the age of two, explained what happened when she went to register her son:
"I said, 'Well, what's the big deal?' She said, 'It doesn't matter how he looks, he has boy parts, he can't be in Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts don't allow that [and] I don't want to be in trouble by parents or my supervisor.'"
Bobby told Denver's 9NEWS that he has been bullied at school, and that "It's hurting my heart. It hurts me and my mom both." And referring to his original rejection by the Scouts, he said, "It was like somebody told me I can't like girl stuff, and I have to change my name to something else."
But The Girl Scouts of Colorado went on to clarify the situation, releasing a statement that said they are an "inclusive organization," and that "If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout." So it appears that the troop leader just hadn't been up to speed on the organization's policy.
There has been an increase in kids questioning their gender identity at earlier ages than ever before, and someone like Chaz Bono has put a very public face on the issues that individuals born with a mismatched anatomy, so to speak, have to confront. Though he didn't ultimately win Dancing with the Stars, and was called "a cute penguin" in the process, he set a pioneering example by being the first transgender contestant on the show. If Bobby Montoya wants to play with a Strawberry Shortcake doll, good for him. Allowing him to join the Girl Scouts isn't hurting anyone, other than the feelings of bigots.
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Commentarium (68 Comments)
Oh my, what's this world coming to. Its fine that he likes girl things and wants to be a girl, but he's not. You don't even have to join the girl scouts to prove anything.
Thanks for the cissexism on an otherwise heartwarming article. No one who is trans has to "prove" anything; they just wanted to be accepted. If they are outside of your binary definition of gender, then seriously, fuck off.
"Their" definition of gender? Even the article states it's a boy. Penis=boy, vagina=girl. If the Girl Scouts admit boys, then good for them. But can we knock off this "pretend he is a girl" shit? There's a reason that nobody will do the surgery on a person that young.
Have you seen "his" genitals? Has the reporter? Is it any of your business? What if s/he has both? It happens you know. What's God's plan for hermaphrodites?
I know you are REAL SURE that it's all about penis/vagina, but you happen to be wrong - lots more going on that you simply don't know anything about.
The parents say that he is a boy. And they probably have seen his genitals. Have you seen yours lately?
Sorry, can't see mine.
Sorry, no. I was raised in a gender neutral commune in the wilds of Canada. I still havent revealed the secret to myself.
"I was raised in a gender neutral commune"
Oh this is the awesome. I can't wait for the future, when people aren't allowed to identify as a specific gender because it isn't inclusive.
I can't wait for the future where we turn poor people into food. I'm sure comma can't either.
Eat the rich. In other words, eat me.
Prefer not. The rich are too indolent and lazy; I prefer leaner cuts of meat.
Yeah, let me know how that works out for you.
I like to pretend I'm rich, so eat me.
If the child wants to be a girl, who cares? How is that affecting you? It's not. It is their choice so forget about it. Other children don't seem to have a problem with others wanting to be the opposite gender, so why should you?
Awwww, she's adorable! I hope she earns lots of badges tying knots or whatever the hell is it is that girls do in Scouts these days.
And sells a pile of cookies too.
She's a lot cuter and girlier than I was at that age. And I was born with girl parts (and still have them, and try to be girly... but that's a story for another day)
Am I the only one really disturbed by the news anchor asking the psychologist "Is the mother doing the right thing supporting this?" It might not have been his intention, but the way that came off was like, Shouldn't she tell her kid to suck it up and put him in football instead?
You're not the only one - I was peeved right at the start with "opposite gender"etc - the "you may be uncomfortable" was understandable, but the rest of the intro was plain enough; there aint but two genders, genitals are destiny, can't even think about it any other way. I hope little bobby grows up to be a news anchor - with big stiff hair and a cowl neck business dress.
And you know this HOW exactly? And why "probably" even? Because YOU'RE disturbed? Suck it up, people like Bobby have been among us forever, living lives of fear and desperation thanks to simpletons like you. Many of them are deciding to not be afraid. You wont like it ; who cares?
Years ago, I was a summer camp counselor who joined some counselors from the local Boy Scout and Girl Scout camps for a happy hour. Both camps were trying to recruit more staff that summer, and the Girl Scout camp leader explained that the Girl Scouts allowed males to be Girl Scouts. The Boy Scout leader acknowledged that the Boy Scouts strictly excluded the "3 g's": gays, godless, girls.
"Transgender GIRL allowed to join Girl Scouts" Not to mention, if a child identifies as a girl they are generally afforded she/her pronouns.
Yes, this.
+3.
I identify myself with doctors. Can I call myself one and that makes it so? No.
A little confused, are we? "Doctor" is available to anyone willing to do the work.
I don't think pointing something out constitutes as a "stick up one's ass", Ryan. It's also OK for people to care about things that are important to them, even if it seems irrelevant to you.
Spoken like a person with a stick up their ass.
Spoken like a cis-gendered male, and an asshole, comma.
Ooh, nasty. Where are my pronouns, R.? That seems to be an issue for you. Almost like it would be for someone wit, I don't know, a STICK UP THEIR ASS. :-)
Oops! can't find that H key?
I think the whole boy/girl scouts thing is stupid. Scouts should be integrated!
Poor little girls. Can't they have their own things without having a boy come in and ruin it?
But this isn't a boy coming in and ruining it. She's a girl.
But it's not a boy ruining things. She's a girl.
Poor children, can't they have inclusive groups and activities without small minded bigots ruining it. UGH>
I can understand why this topic is difficult for people. It has been a big bad secret for years. About 10 years ago my best friend had a little by who has wanted to be a girl since he could speak. Toys, clothes, all of it. Until I was in a situation where i could watch this over a ten year period I couldn't understand it either.
I PROMISE you no parent wants their child to be face with bigotry, and hatred, bullying, and mistreatment. My friends have supported their son over the years as he tries to figure this out. we talk to doctors, read books about it- google it. We look into it because this kid is serous. No one would put a child through this for fun. They are just doing the best they can as parents to support their child so that he can feel normal...and maybe not commit suicide when he is 14 because of hateful people. How about if instead of blasting these folks we look into it a bit- you know, google it or some shit?
Yes. Because if we can't trust the Internet, then who can we trust. Don't believe me? Google "Santorum".
I see. Nevermind.
Thank you for sharing, CM. Definitely definitely true!!
Don't be such a suckass , Dee.
Actually, Dee...let me suck your ass.
Do they make GS uniforms in Boy sizes?
Actually this is a bigger step forward than you all notice. He can stay a boy who likes girl things and join a girl's organization to enjoy those girl things. That's great. We can keep the entrenched gender dichotomy of masculine and feminine just fine if we allow for there to be cross-interest.
How about girl scouts for girlie fun, boy scouts for boy fun, and the third for co-ed. Fancy bathrooms and simple utilitarian bathrooms instead of female and male. Let people decide where they identify without having to overhaul their identities to correspond with the outdated categories.
Because there are actually very major differences between the genders apart from genitalia. Those differences are okay, we don't have to make the whole goddamned world and an gender neutral.
who cares either way, is she/he your child? the only people that should have any concern for this story are his/her parents.
But they aren't showing concern or they would have dealt with this earlier. He's a two year old boy who picked and played with a doll? He must really be a girl! Let's buy him girl's clothes, grow out his hair and treat him like a girl and tell him that he is transgender! Or, they could have correctly said, "Look, our son is playing with a doll."
Lots of boys play with dolls, and like girl games. Very few refuse all boy toys, games, and clothes their entire lives regardless of what their family wants. These parents know it would be a much easier life for their kid if he or she were just "normal" and followed the same path as other kids who felt comfortable in their own gender- but these kids CAN'T. There parents aren't just indulging their odd, bratty kid. They are so completely different from a boy that likes dolls occasionally or a girl who likes snakes. I really hope you don't ever have to deal with it personally, because it is so much more complex than you make it out to be.
Do you think that homosexual males just like to have sex with other men occasionally, but need to just drop the whole gay act and get with women? If people wouldn't indulge them that theywould go back to being hetero?
That last paragraph was a complete straw man and I will ignore it.
I do not think that the parents are pushing their child to be transgendered. I think both of you -- comma and CM -- are projecting a lot onto this boy. All he said was that he likes girl stuff, and wants to be a girl scout. His parents don't call him a girl, he doesn't call himself a girl. The Girl Scouts are saying he can only get in if he's trans, not just if he's a boy who likes girl stuff. This whole comment section is way too eager to go further than anyone involved with the actual child is going. Sure, the kid might be trans -- but he also just might be a girly little boy! Jesus, a lot of femme gay guys were just like this kid growing up, and they didn't grow up to be trans. Let's not be so eager to politicize a child's gender alignment either way.
I was only talking about my best friend's kid. Not the one in this article.
It seems impossible to me to not feel political about this when so many public figures are supporting anti-gay hate mongering. Little kids are murdering other femme little kids. They don't have time to work it out- gay, trans, femme whatever. They need people to protect them at every stage until they are big enough to protect themselves, and figure this out.
Of course I agree completely that this family should not have revealed the identity of their child on the internet- that kid might change his mind next week. But i would love to see people more supportive of kids that are unsure about their gender identity.
How can people believe that the universe created the platypus, black holes, hermaphrodites, rain forests, the grand canyon, but there is no way that people could be born a little ambiguous about their gender?
Because there is a huge difference between breaking out of defined gender stereotypes (boys-trucks, girls-dolls), and a a two year old saying that he should have been born with a vagina rather than a penis.
Correction: a HUUUUGE difference.
I didn't realize that, CM. And I agree that breaking out of gender norms is something that is often hard for young kids, and having supportive parents is integral. His parents seem pretty decent. I suppose I don't really disagree with either of you -- this kid might be trans, he might not, but either way, he should not be forced into a gender alignment (trans-woman or femme man) that does not suit him.
@ Comma- At what age, and how many years into it do you think the person is SURE? I don't think a 2 year old is capable, neither is a 10 year old capable of making this decision. But I'm curious, would you support a 14 year old who had committed to this notion for his whole life?
CM- I will grant you that. I don't know and for the person and their parents it must be off the charts confusing.
I don't know. Being transgendered is a huge decision, one that shouldn't be made by the caprice of a child. What if later on in life he decides he really just wants to be a boy? You want to explain that to the parents who made your identity an issue of national attention? And whatever happened to being a femme little boy?
nope: one does not "decide" to be transgender... that is what a lot of people fail to realize... they may "decide" to try not to let anyone know they are.... OR they may "decide" they want to dress certain ways, but they don't wake up one day and say "hey, i think i wanna be transgender"..... just doesn't go down like that... :0)
Banging that big gay drum again.
And this is what's wrong with North America. We put everyone in the box labeled 'Girl' or 'Boy' when in reality not everyone fits those titles. We don't have only two sexes. There is more than two! We also have intersexed children who don't fit in to the girl or boy category. So what's so wrong with a person who has a penis, but identities with the female gender ? Nothing. Let the poor kid be happy for fuck sake.
My opinion as a seasoned mother is just use some common sense. Kids like attention, if the kid does something as a phase and the parents get all crazy about it and start supporting the shit out of it---then the kid is going to roll with it, because it is feeding his/her needs within the family. Ignore the weird stuff your kids do unless it is dangerous, don't mock them or punish---but ignore it--3 out of 4 times the behavior will go away---but if you are like ok he is a girl now and start purchasing for a girl and telling people your kid is a girl than you as the parent have a serious issue--If it really is a transgender thing let it come out on its own in puberty---AT two-four years old it's normal for a boy to like dolls and play daddy at preschool and want to wear the dress-up stuff---so when ur kid does this how about not jumping on the my kid wants to be a girl bandwagon. Really we project some serious problems on our kids in the name of being PC.
It's confusing to me. I only know that "likes typically girly things" is not necessarily the same as "thinks should have been born female." I'm a woman with often quite traditionally masculine tastes, but I've never once in my life thought I WAS (or should be) male. People are mixing those things together, the liking of "girly" things with the wanting to be a girl. I'm confused.
I'm sorry but when he was two!! Shame on the mom!! She wanted a girl and that poor boy was brain wash!!!!
Hey, good to find somoene who agrees with me. GMTA.
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How do you think, who this year won the Champions League Cup?
You know instead of trying to join an organization to cause problems and make more problems for everyone else, why don't you start your own. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean screwing it up for everyone. Get a life. Minority groups have caused to many problems and need to figure out "alternative" solutions. Stop pushing your homo this and homo that or transgender agenda on the rest of the world. May God have mercy on you, since most of you don't have a Christian mindset.
This isn't about "alternative" solutions, this is about being accepted as the RIGHT gender. Bobby feels like a girl, therefor, she is a girl. Therefor, she should be aloud to be in girl scouts, just like the rest of the girls. Sex doesn't matter, gender is what counts.
And, People like you make me sick, because, one, we're going for our right to EQUAL rights. LGBPTQQI or not, we're all people in God's mind.
-Another Trans youth.
Now you say something