While there are plenty of brilliant writers and artists currently working in the world of graphic novels and comic books, two titans stand towering above the rest: Frank Miller (Sin City, 300) and Alan Moore (From Hell, Watchmen). So when Miller recently lashed out against the whole Occupy Wall Street, Etc. movement on his blog, calling them "a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness," you knew it was only a matter of time before someone asked for Moore's take on the nationwide protests. An interviewer over at Honest Publishing did, and Moore gave a characteristically frank response. First, he made it very clear where he stands regarding Miller's work over the years:

Well, Frank Miller is someone whose work I’ve barely looked at for the past twenty years. I thought the Sin City stuff was unreconstructed misogyny, 300 appeared to be wildly ahistoric, homophobic and just completely misguided. I think that there has probably been a rather unpleasant sensibility apparent in Frank Miller’s work for quite a long time.

Yowzas. That actually sums up Miller's work pretty well. But as far as his opinion of the Occupy movement, he has to fall in line with the same right-wing thinking of Miller's, seeing as the various book and movie deals the two have signed over the years surely place them both squarely in the 1%, meaning they should share the same ideological philosophies, correct? Not surprisingly, the creator of V for Vendetta vehemently disagrees:

[T]he Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs. I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail. I think that the Occupy movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it. I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favour of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.

So, then. Looks like the Occupiers have a new hero.

Commentarium (23 Comments)

Dec 05 11 - 5:07pm
JM

Not only is this news somewhat old by internet standards but you clearly don't know a lot about Alan Moore. He hasn't signed any movie deals, in fact, he doesn't even want to be credited on the films based on his books. DC owns the rights and does with them as they please. Also, that second paragraph is really poorly written. You can't assert that he'd be right-wing like Miller based on his wealth and then follow it with "unsurprising he isn't." If it isn't going to be surprising to anyone than sentence that precedes it is not needed.

Dec 05 11 - 6:35pm
John Son

+1. Funny how the smug style of some of Nerve's writers seems meant to cover for their lack of knowledge on any given topic.

Dec 05 11 - 7:04pm
m-m-m

+1 again. The writer seems to have no idea who Alan Moore is. The logic with which the writer presents the second paragraph is poorly constructed. Being well off != anti-OWS

Dec 05 11 - 5:12pm
zii

of course he supports OWS! the coopting of the guy faux mask by left wing agitators (like myself) is because of him.

Dec 05 11 - 5:22pm
yougottabekididngme

And the irony is lost on those who coopt and wear such masks. Also, how is Sin City mysogonistic? And how is 300 homophobic? I like Alan Moore very much, I just disagree with these statements.

Also, the occupy movement(s) have been anything, maybe rarely, but non-violent, and least of all intelligent. What little good that is possible does get drowned out by the idiots yelling over them.

Dec 05 11 - 5:53pm
spellcheck

Well, this shall be blatantly ad hominem, but ought we to consider your opinion to be in any way well thought out? You couldn't be bothered to check whether you'd managed the Herculean task of spelling "yougottabekiddingme" correctly.

Additionally, if you consider OWS violent, I'd like to know what standard of non-violence you're comparing them to.

Dec 05 11 - 6:58pm
Oi.

The problem with OWS are participants like Zii. Note how he/she made sure to point out that he/she is a left wing agitator, though it's completely irrelevant to the conversation? It's not about the cause (or any cause for that matter) - it's about him/her narcissistically validating him or herself without actually having to do anything to earn it.

Dec 05 11 - 7:00pm
Telemonian Ajax

Seriously? Did you read Sin City? What woman is presented as having her own agency, her own desires, her own life apart from what a man can give her?

And every one of those soldiers in 300 was sexually involved with men, yet none of that made it through to the page, despite the culture of Sparta being central to the story. Well, the culture apart from the acceptance of male/male sexuality (which was in no way comparable to what we consider to be homosexual in the 21st century).

And I agree, if you think OWS has been violent, then you're only paying attention to the "cops" portion of it. Students sitting on a sidewalk do not present a clear and present danger and could easily be carried off, as they were in the 60s. Instead of dogs and hoses, we have chemical weapons to use. Doesn't make it any more justified than the dogs and hoses though.

"When they came for the 4th Amendment, I was silent, because I didn't do drugs. When they came for trhe 6th Amendment, I was silent because I had never been arrested. When they cam for the 2nd Amendment, I was silent because I didn't own a gun. And when they came for the 1st Amendment, I had no choice but to be silent."

Dec 05 11 - 11:58pm
yougottabekididngme

>Well, this shall be blatantly ad hominem, but ought we to consider your opinion to be in any way well thought out? You couldn't be bothered to check whether you'd managed the Herculean task of spelling "yougottabekiddingme" correctly.
Additionally, if you consider OWS violent, I'd like to know what standard of non-violence you're comparing them to.

Oh right. I said something that doesn't fit in with the more p.c liberal views/biases espoused by this site and it's readers, so I have to have what I say approved by you cause I seemingly didn't think it out as you so wrongfully assumed.

Tell me, have you heard about the rapes? The drug dealings? The deaths/murders? The weapons at various Occupy protests? I'm just reflecting and reporting on what I see.

And of all the things to make fun of me or attack me over, you attack my screenname? Please. Try a little harder next time to insult me. My handle is just a figure of speech, I know it's not proper grammar,grammar nazi.

>Seriously? Did you read Sin City? What woman is presented as having her own agency, her own desires, her own life apart from what a man can give her?

So just because a story features mysogony or a mysogonist character,therefore, the story or the writer is instantly a mysogonist? That's a dangerous line you're treading if you ask me. I have read sin city, and yes, while it portrays abuse and the like, doesn't mean the story is what it deals with. Or learn to seperate the writer from the story.

>And every one of those soldiers in 300 was sexually involved with men, yet none of that made it through to the page, despite the culture of Sparta being central to the story. Well, the culture apart from the acceptance of male/male sexuality (which was in no way comparable to what we consider to be homosexual in the 21st century).

That's historically proven?

>And I agree, if you think OWS has been violent, then you're only paying attention to the "cops" portion of it. Students sitting on a sidewalk do not present a clear and present danger and could easily be carried off, as they were in the 60s. Instead of dogs and hoses, we have chemical weapons to use. Doesn't make it any more justified than the dogs and hoses though.

I have seen what the cops have done, but several of the protestors have been more violent. And let's be honest, if the cops weren't doing there job, those hippie bums and wannabe anarchists would be rioting and destroying cities. So let's applaud the police for doing such a good job.

>"When they came for the 4th Amendment, I was silent, because I didn't do drugs. When they came for trhe 6th Amendment, I was silent because I had never been arrested. When they cam for the 2nd Amendment, I was silent because I didn't own a gun. And when they came for the 1st Amendment, I had no choice but to be silent."

Wow. That's quite the low. Trying to compare some spoiled trust fund cry babies who don't always get there way,to those who suffered a real tragedy and loss during the holocaust. Wow. New low right there. New low.

2nd ammendment? Really? Aren't lefties the ones who don't like guns and are always calling for more gun control?

Dec 06 11 - 12:27am
JamesBradyRyan

Hi there! Two quick points:

1. Nowhere does Telemonian Ajax say that Frank Miller is a misogynist. He or she simply states - and I would agree - that the female characters in "Sin City" lack the agency of the male characters. The men act, the women are acted upon - and those who have even the slightest bits are still sex objects for the male characters to lust after. (Seriously: almost every single female protagonist is either a stripper or a sex worker. Empower-y!)

2. Yeah, it *is* historically proven that in ancient Greece, during the time period of "300," older men had sexual relations with younger men. (I was a Classics major, so this is kind of my area.) It's certainly possible that not every single one of the men in Leonidas' band did so, but it was generally the case that older men helped "introduce" the younger ones to adult society and that involved screwing. Telemonian is right, it was not viewed the same way at all - it was all about who was the top and who was the bottom, to put it crudely. (An older guy as the bottom would not be viewed so well.) But to have the idea of man-on-man action dismissed entirely by the Spartans is frankly ludicrous. To remove it entirely is a deliberate move, and doesn't really reflect well on Miller.

Dec 06 11 - 3:20am
yougottabekididngme

"1. Nowhere does Telemonian Ajax say that Frank Miller is a misogynist. He or she simply states - and I would agree - that the female characters in "Sin City" lack the agency of the male characters. The men act, the women are acted upon - and those who have even the slightest bits are still sex objects for the male characters to lust after. (Seriously: almost every single female protagonist is either a stripper or a sex worker. Empower-y!)"

Well, I just wanted them to be clear. And again, just because a story has such an element, doesn't make it mysogonist. Oh wow. It's a seedy story with seedy characters, and the female characters aren't portrayed as the most "empowered". Cry me a fucking river. Oh wow. They're breaking some sort of b.s politically correct law. I really don't care, as you can clearly see.

I know in Anciet Greece man-boy love was commonly practiced. Man, you don't know how weird it feels saying that, but Sparta was considered seperate from Greece,well, they considered themselves, and there's even the dialouge "the boy lovers in Athens", so that's double fail on your part.

It was never suggested that the spartans, or the 300, did such things. Where has it ever said that? Again,the spartans considered themselves seperate from Greece. Do you have any absoulte proof that it did happen?

Dec 06 11 - 9:28am
PJC

Wikipedia, which can sometimes be trusted if it has citations, states that there was some pederastic institution in Sparta -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece#Sparta. It doesn't seem certain, though, if sexual love was a part of that. Remember, the Greeks were more refined and distinct in their definitions of love (e.g. agape, eros, philia). This isn't "absolute proof" for or against Spartan man-boy love, but that's a ridiculous demand anyway. I think it's certainly more trustworthy than Frank Miller's historical revisions.

Dec 06 11 - 3:07pm
ugutta is a dickhead

and can't admit to losing an argument, being a pus head neo con. I blame you and the retards like you for the mess we're in.

There are plenty of homosexual images from different areas of ancient Greece, including myths, poetry, and writings, and your close minded, puny brain can't accept the fact because you are a brainwashed Neo Con, educated beyond the level of your intelligence.

Dec 07 11 - 9:19pm
yougottabekididngme

Um, and what mess is that that "we're" in? I'm not in any mess, what are you talking about? I didn't lose anything, I called you out where you might be wrong, and you can't handle it. I never did anything to anyone. Sensitive much? Retards really? And I bet you're the type of person who is all for tolerance,understanding,diversity etc right? Thought so.

I know the greeks had alot of gay imagery. Don't need to tell me. Brainwashed? Well, better not use such a double edged sword of a term, brainwashed libtard.

You're just a puny pathetic excuse of a person who needs to use big words to make themselves look and feel big. Loser.

Dec 05 11 - 6:50pm
Telemonian Ajax

If anyone has actually read Watchmen, I can't imagine they would be surprised by Moore's take on this.

Flipside: If anyone has actually read Dark Knight Returns, I can';t imagine they would be surprised by Miller's take on this.

Miller was just an asshole, whereas Mo0re (for all his absolute batshittery in his personal life and appaerance) was remarkable calm and to the point.

re: Guy Fawkes masks: Yes, there's an inherent irony. But history is written by the winners, and should the masked jokers come out on top, the story told for a century afterwards will be determined by them. I personally find it inspiring, others find it childish or inane. Given the issues actually at play here, it seems like whether or not it's appropriate to use a certain kind of mask is of utter inconsequence.

Dec 06 11 - 12:03am
yougottabekididngme

Uh, Guy Fawkes was anything but a winner. They did catch him and kill him. Moore was saying had he succeeded, they would have been switching a Protestant head with a Catholic one.

This just in: Man who claims to be part of the Occupy Movement in Boston, follows,stalks and threatens woman. Yeah. And they aren't violent at all.

Dec 06 11 - 3:02pm
ugutta is a dickhead

You're an asshole. I was at several local OWS gatherings and saw none of the lies you are repeating from FAUX news. The only violence was from the police, videotaped, never shown on TV or reported in the newspapers. You are a politically correct neo con, stuck in a little box of a mind. You are your own worse hell, quite fitting.

Dec 06 11 - 5:05pm
yougottabekididngme

This wasn't on FAUX news, really, come up with something new, this was on the local news. Yeah. You probably didn't see it cause it wasn't happening when you were there dumbass. Uh, plenty of the violence from police was shown on several media outlets, where have you been?

Yeah. I'm a neo con in my own worse hell,yeah, you really got me pinned right there.

Dec 05 11 - 11:27pm
Holly

"I think that the Occupy movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail"

Just that sentence explained Occupy to me better than anyone else has.

Dec 06 11 - 1:42am
Sarah

I hate that the writer of this piece clearly didn't feel the need to research Alan Moore or look into the subject at all before writing it.

Dec 06 11 - 11:17am
JM

Exactly.

Dec 21 11 - 9:33pm
LL

Alan Moore was always a socialist. I recall an interview with him from back in the 80s, when he said he wanted to leave Great Britain because of Thatcherism.

"I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favour of it.

Oooh, snap!

(But since they're a bunch of young, sociopathic anarchists with Guy Fawkes masks on their faces, a Roman snake-god worshipper is all in favor of it.)

LOL.

Jan 01 12 - 5:13pm
JParish

This YouGottaperson...Why is anyone discussing this with him? He seems to be the type who watches FOX, which means he is a lap dog. Lap dogs are animals, cowering in the corner, hoping and praying their masters will through them a bone. What rape? I haven't heard of rape by Occupy and even if there is that doesn't sum up the collective global cause, only a few isolated cases, and I am sure there can be cases of 1% conservatives and even evangelicals who rape or even murder. As for drugs? So what? Back off you prude. 52% of America wants them. According to recent White House Polls the #1 agenda by the public is legalization of marijuana. When it comes down to it people like this Whatchyamufucker are small people who aren't aware that his life isn't what it could be, that there has never been a point in American history after 1890 where the country had a large disproportion of wealth being horded by a select few. Unless you are the few why would you stand up for them? Occupy has hippies, it has dirty people, it has druggies, it also has senior citizens, the sick, people fighting to survive and desperate for work that isn't there as we hit 10% unemployment. They are more then kids trying to recapture Woodstock (as evident that Occupy has formed in ever city across the globe), they are teachers, and soldiers, moms, and dads and quite frankly, they when you diss Occupy you fail to understand this is a fight for the Blue collar worker who has ever right to make a comfortable living and no one should be able to profiteer from that. I am sorry you are so misguided. You apparently live under an umbrella and I suppose economic pains have not yet touched you and you clearly display your total lack of empathy and humanity when you live in a country who can't be bothered to give medicine to its own people. Perhaps that is why we are last in education. We are 52 globally in infant death rates. We consume more then we make. We send jobs else where, lay off Americans and give them to India, then call the unemployed lazy. I've decided that the voice of morons like Whatchafucker doesn't understand that the Liberal means "giving, socially aware, conscious of the world around them." and Conservative means "Frugal and cheap". Look it up, Websters Dictionary. Anything you have to say is not your own thought. You are a puppet and I can't blame you as you spout FOX propaganda because the average Conservative Right Wing is generally less educated and has a 20 point dip in IQ. Have you not heard the Conservatives say, "Liberal (giving), Secular (educated), elitists (the best)" as if that is something to be looked down upon? When did America become so proud of being cheap and stupid that they even want their leaders to be bad at their jobs. I can no more listen to the words of a Conservative then I can a Fundamentalist who dismisses science in favor of their favorite religious flavor. These people need to be recognized, branded, and ignored because the longer we listen to those who support the wealthy when it is not in their own tax interests, the longer we listen to the religious who wish for the end of times and the end of Government (the Tea Party who hates govt), and these absolute prejudice fuckers who would strip others of their civil rights for simply being born gay (and yes, science has proven it though you have may not have heard because you live in a bubble but the papers are out their if you bother) then nothing good will come from today's struggles.
What struggles? Turn on a news station other then FOX, MSNBC, or even CNN. If you want to have an intelligent conservation you must remove yourself for a time and step into a different way of thinking. It saddens me that young America would rather be bent over by old rich men in suits then take the power for themselves.
Whatchafuckup is sickening because he represents a disease of social apathy and ignorance but you can't force the ignorant through the door.
As for Sin City, it's Rape, Prostitution, and Abuse...now you have an understanding of misogyny . Alan Moore is for all intensive purposes a freaking loon but his politics are right on. Frank Millers best and only true contributions to comics is The Dark Knight and Daredevil, after that it's all ego with no brains. He's Grant Morrison without the art and talent. He's a senior citizen in a hipster hat who is out of touch and still living in Regan's 80's.
Just like Whatafuckface.