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When I was a teenager, Frank Bascombe, the forty-year-old man at the center of
Richard Ford's The Sportswriter, was my kind of guy. He's "in
the deepest depths of my worst dreaminess." So was I! He feels "a
swirling dreaminess." Hey, me too! The symptoms of dreaminess "can
be a long-term interest in the weather, or a sustained soaring feeling," he
says. And that's what I felt: a disoriented, is that all there
is torpor. At fifteen, I was having a midlife crisis.
Young women and the Richard Ford brand of middle-aged men have an awful lot in
common. Both are alone in a crowd, too smart for the room. Both feel trapped — by
school on one hand, suburban obligation on the other. Both are uneasy with responsibility,
newly unsure about what they want to do with their lives. And both confuse sex
with love. In short, both are fantastically lonely.
So is it any surprise that, in spite of progressive society's disapproval, they
so often fantasize about — and even occasionally wind up with — each other?
These days, older men are not supposed to want to date young women. As we know
from Demi-Ashton and Something's Gotta Give, when older women score young
studs, a collective societal wink of approval is in order, while for men, the
convertible and half-his-age girlfriend are signs of moral bankruptcy. Men dating
women young enough to be their daughters is frowned upon. While it's hard to
condone older men dating women who in fact are their daughters (Woody Allen),
I absolutely defend Jack Nicholson's right to arm candy, not for his sake, but
for the candy's.
Being the younger girlfriend isn't exactly a prison sentence. It typically involves
travel and being fussed over. And, as a rule, that pretty, smooth-skinned young
thing in the passenger seat isn't in it for cynical reasons. Sure, maybe sometimes
it's about what people always say; he wants to stave off mortality with a wrinkle-free
trophy, she wants money and power. But I think a lot of times their neuroses
just happen to be in sync; sometimes they just get each other.
Throughout my life, I have known plenty of girls who wound up in various relationships across the
intimacy spectrum with men twenty years older. Maybe it was socially awkward
at times, but they didn't die and few of them felt
then or feel now that they were being exploited.
Maybe if one of my thirty-year-old male friends started fraternizing with an
eighteen-year-old girl, I would be scandalized, but I don't think so. In any
case, I certainly wouldn't question the young lady's motives. I have smart, nice
friends
who would have a lot of neat stuff to teach any girl who's like I was ten years
ago.
Besides, even though my friends and I fraternized with older men out of a sense
of adventure or friendship rather than what people always say
younger women are after — money and power — I refuse to believe that
money and power are such terrible things to want. Both are in short supply when
you're a teenage girl with ambition beyond the limited life to which you've
been sentenced by your age. Mutual, life-improving arrangements that happen to
involve one person being rich and the other being pretty certainly aren't any
worse than those unglamorous couplings of similarly endowed and aged people who
combine to synergistically create a perfectly healthy, fantastically boring dyad.
And healthy, boring dyads seem to be what sanctioned teen entertainment is all
about. In the eighties, you had Judy Blume's training-bra classics and softcore
porn like Do You Love Me, Harvey Burns? In the nineties, you had Francesca
Lia Block's L.A. fairytales. Now, teen girls have Louise Rennison's
books about the engagingly pouty heroine Georgia Nicolson
(Angus, Thongs and Full Frontal Snogging, etc.), which, while charming,
are about pretty standard stuff: fights with mom, kissing boys, feeling ugly.
Then
you
have Sophie
Kinsella's Shopaholic series, pure proto-socialite drivel about a ditz
who just
can't stop buying accessories on credit. From the Amazon summary: "Becky's
ten-month globe-trot with hubby Luke was a shopping spree disguised as a honeymoon — heck,
Becky will walk across hot coals for an aquamarine necklace…"
Girls: reading these books is a
BIG MISTAKE. Not only is this soulless genre, with its "look how unsexy
sex can be" posturing, way too shallow for a growing mind, it only expands
the chasm between you and men. What one needs from a boyfriend or husband, at any
age, is empathy and companionship, and the more Women are from Venus bullshit
one indulges in, the more difficult it is to bridge the gender gap. Whenever
you're setting up human relationships as a game (The Rules, He's Just Not That
Into You) or a glamorous lifestyle choice wherein you dress up and spend
most
of your time talking with your girlfriends or your journal about how exasperated
men make you (Sex and the City, Bridget Jones' Diary), you're never going
to see men as fallible, mortal beings looking for understanding just like you
are.
Chick-lit heroines are like the pettiest and most practical characters in a Jane
Austen novel come to life, minus charm or patience. It's all frantic screwing-cute
with no time for anything to steep, whereas Ford and company — they
know from steeping. Everything is mystifying for these confused, angst-ridden
heroes — even getting up in the morning, which is why these books stop
being good reading once you hit your twenties and need to stop stewing and get on with things.
As a ten-year-old girl, my first cassette tapes were (and how this happened I'll
never know): Huey Lewis, Phil Collins and Weird Al. Hipper friends quickly swooped
in with
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Hey, I could think, at least I'm not an alcoholic with a dead bird in my closet.
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Depeche Mode and the Violent
Femmes, but the damage was done: from an early age, I deeply identified with
the cultural output of that demographic. And after the obligatory Jane Austen and Brönte
sisters phase, I got obsessed with random older male authors I found purely by
chance at used bookstores (if the back cover referred to its aging hero as "tortured" my
babysitting money was as good as spent):
Richard Ford, Tom Spanbauer, Joe Coomer, J. D. Salinger, Lewis Shiner, Philp
K. Dick, Denis Johnson... I was smitten. I even liked Harry Crews, whose genuinely
terrifying Southern Gothic books — getting tattooed when you're blackout-drunk
in Alaska, accidentally killing a hawk you're trying to train, watching
a cockfight — taught me everything I needed to know about the darkness
of the soul. And it sure put not being invited to some cool-kids party in perspective.
Hey, I may be sitting at home alone, I could think, but at least I'm not an
alcoholic living in a shack in the woods with a dead bird in my closet. I just
sort of wanted to date one.
As refuge from perpetually disappointing teenage boyfriends, I pined
in a romantic fashion for dozens of older male authors, alive (Sam Shepard) and
dead (Tolstoy). Falling for a narrator is weird. It entails a curiously absorbing sensation of wanting to simultaneously be and sleep with the person who owns the voice that's
entered your head. When you already share so much intellectual bandwidth with
someone, you lose yourself a little. But when your life consists of baffling
social scenarios, pop quizzes, and drug experimentation, I'm not sure that's
a bad thing.
Think Lost in Translation Bill Murray, in narrator form, whispering his frustrations
into your ear while you stay up all night, thoroughly at sea in a twin bed in
your parents' house. Is it any wonder I wanted nothing to do with the young-adult
novels and feminist literature calculated to make me a well-adjusted young woman?
Sure, I skimmed Possessing the Secret of Joy, but joy gets old; I was interested
in other secrets — secrets like what it feels like to walk up to the door
of the home where you live with your wife and children and not want to go inside.
Ultimately, I have a healthier idea of the difference between men and their books. When I interviewed Sam Shepard for New York Magazine, he did
not insist we go on a road trip immediately, but instead hung up on me after
a few perfectly normal questions. At nearly thirty, I'm too old for all my
older men anyway. But my emotional affair with that demographic has left me less
judgmental. Whenever I read a middle-aged author's overwrought piece of self-indulgent
fiction, even if I don't enjoy it, I can picture my younger self reading the
same story and understanding it exactly. If my husband goes through a mid-life
crisis twenty years from now, I hope I'd be able to channel my teenage self and
remember how to be the refuge-girlfriend rather than the wearying spouse.
The only thing The Sportswriter's Frank Bascombe said that I disagreed with was
this: dreaminess when you're young is pleasurable and when you're
old is not. In fact, it can be torturous for the young and pleasurable for the
old; it's just a question of finding someone just as dreamy as you are
to see you through. But I have no doubt that — driving around in his shiny new car, all intense
longing and existential angst — Frank and I would have worked it out.
n°
©2004 Ada Calhoun and Nerve.com
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Commentarium (71 Comments)
Why does Frank Bascombe, living in the suburbs of New Jersey in the 80's, refer to blacks as "Negroes"?
Great story, very refeshing veiw point!
Well written, I have not come across an article that actually detailed the both sides of the socially awkward connection between young women and middle-aged men. The truth is the truth no matter how taboo it may seam outwardly.
You've presented a thoughtful piece of writing about a 'passage in life' many go through, which I, myself, am currently living (I'm 39 and divorced - she's 21, a senior in college). Your witty and deep observations have enlightened me. Most of it speaks true to me. I don't feel as bad about what I've gotten myself into anymore.
Cheers.
Good job! Thanks for putting this out there.
I'm intrigued by your theories on 18-year old girls and wish to know where to find one or several. Thanks in advance.
This article just sums up a good debate that's had been going on for a while here.
Could you please send info on how to contact Ada for a radio interview regarding this article.
I host a talk show in Fresno, CA, middays, "Hot Talk" format. I would really like to have this woman on the show.
Thank you.
Chris Daniel
KKDG, Fresno
559-490-5976
Christopher.Daniel@infinity.broadcasting.com
Fascinating reading. I've been researching this phenomenon in various media, and in particular the realm of "older male, younger female" as appears in violent media like the film Leon: The Professional and the like. Prominent theme in a novel in progress I'm working on, http://www.aeforge.com/~aeon/blackbird/
Thanks for writing this.
very nice -- i have always thought that when i have a daughter, if i have a daughter, i may one day wonder which is worse: the thought of her being pawed by a drunken incompetent, unevolved 16 year old boy, or a lecherous 38 year old man. I think the former. as the new republic said about woody allen about a decade ago in a moment of real journalistic moxie, someone must defend the idea of love as self-justifying, if it is heartfelt (a stretch with woodie, but they weren't blood relatives, and though its objectionable, many other acts are moreso).
I have 2 friends who are over 40 that just married 24 year olds. Sure, they aren't teens, but they are pretty darn close. I didn't bat an eye. More power to them!
The match, such as it is, is about the people, not the age. Age is just a number that we attach certain mores to. And not altogether rational mores.
where was this article when i was 18?
Yeah great shit to screw around with an older man when you're young. But that shit don't last. It don't. He gets too old and you get wondering about what you missed. Like with someone who shares your sense of history. So I guess grab the money/experiences/travel while you can, then split before you get too old.
Wait until you are 40 before you stary having children and you miss half of life.
Walter E. Wallis
Finally! A woman who "gets it". One of the closest relationships I ever had with a woman (and it was non-sexual, by the way)was when I was 52 - and she was 19. I did not really understand it, but we just "connected." Of course, every one else around us was horrified.
I admire your courage for writing on a subject that is such a societal taboo. Articles like this generate healthy dialog and are the pinnacle of the virtues of the principle of freedom of speech.
what about same gender couples?
i think in this era of information and media, pop culture and instant awareness of so many things/issues, age is just becoming less relevant - it's increasingly likely to find young people with larger worldviews and experiential baselines that were once the exclusive territory of their elders
Your article was extremely well written. Ignoring your well-crafted argument I am taken with your composition, and with it I am truly smitten. The best read I've had this week.
Sure, it's only Monday...
--
Nate from heagy.com
I hope that if Ada Calhoun's "husband goes through a mid-life crisis twenty years from now," he will have the self-control not to treat her like shit, thereby making her a wearying wife. And I hope she will have the self-respect to know that he, at that age, has no greater claim to bein sexy than her--and that he should just keep fucking her, not some teenager.
Jeez. What a bunch of internalized sexism.
(-- from a middle aged man)
"[H]e... has no greater claim to bein[g] sexy than her"
Total props, middle aged man.
That was a great article. - ayestyles@gmail.com
well, im only sixteen but i feel im in a midlife crisis, and im a guy. i too also feel "too smart to the room", as you say, except i feel that i am brighter almost all other humans and have an important task to accomplish, that i do not know what is. i fear i have missed my chance to do this, because of my cushioned suburban incubation i have grown unstimulated and indulged in various drugs, and marijuana for years, hoping chemicals can unlock my true purpose, instead of reading the incredible library ive collected, from people who can really teach me something... i have several talents, and will almost undoubtably live a successful life by the average americans standards, but i have a purpose and all the wealth in the world can not replace fuffilling it.
hrrtb73602493@hotmail.com
This was brillantly written, and absolutly captivating. I will be sending this to all of my sorority sisters.
i wouldn't say that this is taboo. it's fairly common and people generally deal with it when it happens. while the title of the piece and the beginning of the essay deal with the teen and mid-life man, the writer does bring up, later, the issue of big age gaps between her friends and their partners/spouses. so there's a range of issues here. but i am surprised that not more people notice that a young girl has a lot more possibility of growing up and outgrowing her enchantment with a much older man. you could say - or rationalize - that a much older man is having a midlife crisis, but, if he's 'relating' to a teen or very young woman (and not just interested in having sex with her), then he's probably more stuck - for life and not for the period of a crisis - than one thinks. And for her, the chances of out-maturing him are far greater.
this all sounds a lot like god's own truth, but it causes me to feel sorry for 16 year old boys. i was one a good 20 years ago. a 16 year old boy is basically a 16 year old girl without the sexual allure. i don't buy the argument that teenaged girls are inherent more mature -- they weild more social power, that's for sure, because their bodies are a potent form of currency, and the wise can learn a lot from weilding power. But much as trust funds tend to do a disservice to young people who come into money, coming upon power you did not earn can make one lazy and distrustful. very wise, evolved attractive girls can avoid this laziness and distrustfulness, but its not easy. The young boy, meanwhile, has all the frustrations described in this piece, but also the extra curse of seeing the most compelling of his female counterparts, like the author of this piece, more interested in older men. it is indeed (or was) a humbling experience to be a teenaged boy, but with humility comes a certain strenth. self-loathing is rocket fuel. you know as a young boy that the only way you will get what you want -- if not sex at least a modicum of social respect -- is by developing some kind of talent, a sense of humor, etc.
perhaps the characteristic shared by middle aged men and teenaged girls is a sense of boredom with their own power.
Fascinating! As a 63 year old man,I was astonished to feel an emotive reaction to this piece, not the intellectual curiosity with which I usually read. Last time I remember feeling an emotive response to writing was to a a Kurt Vonnegut Jr. novel, 25 years ago. I wanted to stop reading and call him to tell him it would be alright, suicide was a lousy option. This time, I just want to hang out with the writer, her mind is in a great pace. Wonderful writing!
Wow, well put! I'm a 30 year old male and truly connect smoother with some 18-21 year old female friends of mine. And not even talking on a sexual nature. Never knew why it was like this, but your article helps with the understanding a little.
sure it's great when you're young, but it's creepy in retrospect... (speaking as one who was once young, still loves the old, but now has retrospect. the pictures i have of myself as a sweet young thing being pawed by a dirty old man look sickening. but hey, what the fuck).
Impressively written, first off.
I am a 48 yr. old man with an 18 yr. old girlfriend. She enjoys a lot of the things I like that few women my age go for: video games, anime, dungeons and dragons, techno music, etc. Basically, lots of us men never grow up, especially with regard to our amusements.
Where I have grown up is in the fact that I treat her with the upmost respect, and truly believe she deserves it. Most guys her age don't, which is at least one reason why she prefers to be with me.
I had to scroll up to the author's name again, just to be sure she wasn't a best friend of mine from high school days. Surely some of us are separated at birth. Screw the prissing and preening of ninth grade parties, I was tucked away reading and dreaming of those same rough-living men, and bold, curious young women. It was "Lolita" that really took ahold of me: both the characters and the complexities. That, and the seduction of an older man when I was fifteen. No shame, no abuse, no money-power issues. Simply that our, as Ms. Calhoun points out, "neuroses just happen to be in sync." And, my, was I grateful to be fooling around with him the first time. Instead of the bumbling shyness of another teen, I was shown exactly what that secret little nubbin' can do for me. Thank you for a wonderful literary review slash personal history. You're a good writer.
I feel like hit a nerve your artical was brillent. I feel like you covered so many important issues, I would however liked for you to mention that older men give the courting retitual that young women-girls want but boys and some men for that matter cant porvide. I as a small child heard my mother say " It is better to be an old man's sweetheart , than a youngs man's slave". This is so true, all people regardless of insignificent data, like age, race, physical stature and social standings. Love (true love) is a rare commidety and should be taken when found. I am not talking about lust , unfair mental minuplitations, but the kind when to remarckable souls meet! I am now a 53 year old man about to be 54, I went Middle Age Crazy at 48, I have recovered but like the mith of Santa Clause there is a whole in my heart knowing that I can never go back I can just dream of it. Society tells to many other how to live, but in a higher philosophy they can be and are often wrong. I hope you can regain what you had, all women are worthy of a love that meets or exceeds their imigination.
I really liked the second part of the article, especially the author's wise words about 'chick lit.' Bbut the beginning - I'm sorry, but I don't see the taboo. One movie with Diane Keaton does not a sea change make. Our (mass) culture is replete with approving wink-wink references to older men / younger women. I thought the notion of the "trophy wife" or girlfriend was a given. Nor did I think there was anything new about the idea that a middle aged man involved in real relationship - a meeting of the minds and souls - with a much younger partner might in fact have the mentality of a much younger person (take that as you will).
Feeling an identification with the sentiments of older male authors / artists is one thing; the physical aspect is another. Its a very romanticized look at sex with older men that leaves out unfortunate details like, say, performance issues. Oh, how nature makes fools of us all.
"If my husband goes through a mid-life crisis twenty years from now, I hope I'd be able to channel my teenage self and remember how to be the refuge-girlfriend rather than the wearying spouse. " You really are a dreamer, Ada. Does your article truly reflect a desire to associate with male power, or does it reflect the need to have power over and compete with other women? Why should one woman stand out, far and above other women who choose to hold men accountable, and who happen to expect reasonable behavior from our long-term partners, thereby earning the title of "wearying"?? Spouses can be wearying, as can children, pets, friends, co-workers, bosses, clergymen, etc. Are younger women who engage in relationships with much older men truly interested in the man, or are they simply acting out a fantasy of competition with mother dearest for the rescue and conquest of dear old dad? If this fantasy is the reality, be reminded that the woman, younger in this instance, is still on the receiving end of the proverbial stick.
I'm 36, and was rocketed out of a suffocating marriage due to an intense mid-life crisis/love affair with a 19 year old girl. She blew town not long after completing her homewrecker duties, but I am truly indebted to her for making me realize I wasn't ready for the suburban father bit before it was too late. Now most of my friends are women aged 19-25, and I find I am completely at ease around them, and accepted by them. The girl I am currently seeing is my own age and has no problem with this. It's very beneficial because in a way, the platonic relationship these young girls and I form, while occasionally abuzz with sexual tension, is very mutually beneficial. We all have unresolved family issues, and the older man/younger woman dynamic seems to heal a lot of these, as one can play father, brother, friend, boyfriend, or whatever as needed, and get the same in return, including a fine alternative to having kids (become a sort of "Big Brother" but for women!")
I think girls DO mature faster than guys and unfortunately that can make them bitter by my age, and many guys are the same... what happened to the fun? They all feel trapped in shitty, stressful jobs so they can make the big bucks so they'll be secure in the future. What future? If you don't learn to follow your bliss right now, you never will. A 19 year old girl taught me this. I've been set free, and if Mick Jagger and Jack Nicholson don't have to grow up, then I don't either. Amen.
Yes, but Mick Jagger and Jack Nicholson have money. Lots of it. So does Donald Trump, by the way. They also don't appear to be miserable in their jobs. They also have kids. Some of those kids are doing quite well, too. They are not fools. Along with money comes responsibility and airtight pre-nups. Men like those mentioned above have varying standards for their women. There is the woman you want as the mother of your children, and then there is the woman you want to show off to your friends as a sex object, there is also an emerging standard of the woman you want as your colleague, hot, smart, potential in the sack, but somewhat dangerous. Hmmm, if given the option, I think I would prefer to play the role of "mother of my children" or colleague, to the tenuous role of arm candy.
Excellent writing about excellent writing and great ideas.
Of course, had you not been imprisoned on a literal "cast Away" island of the USA, you would know that the ideas you are so desperately promoting are in fact the classical view of the subject, expressed in great literature for the last thousand years, everywhere where they had literature for at least a thousand years.
Your writing is pure gold, in any case, whatever the subject.
Please stop whatever you are doing and spend the rest of your life doing it, for our sake.
The author says, "At nearly thirty, I'm too old for all my older men anyway." She's overly pessimistic. As an older man (age 70) I could be her mentor and we could do each other some good. She's not too old for me!
I liked the conclusions you started to draw in some of the early paragraphs and found them to be fairly insightful, sharp and humorous at times. However, your thought of reverting to a teenage rebel (excuse me while I paraphrase) to help your husband's potential mid-life crisis as opposed to being the wearying spouse left me a bit disappointed. When you hit that mid-life age and you watch a man who is suppose to be an adult revert to behaviors that are basically immature, self-indulgent, irresponsible and basically fucked up it's not your job to fix his problem by indulging him in his inability to accept or cope with where he is in his life. In fact, you'd be smarter to gently push him out the door and get on with your adult life that is not so narrow in its scope that it can only be summarized and as the wearying spouse.
What a refreshing point of view!
When I was 27 I fell terribly in love with a 55 year old man and later had a baby with him.
I get very tired of hearing people say the same old things about "looking for a father figure" or "elbow dressing". It's so nice to hear some different ideas and comments about it.
Stunning. Really. I just rolled out of bed with a shockingly good hangover, gulped some cold water and pills, and sat down at my desk. To find this. I'm not exaggerating when I say that this may be the most insightful piece I've read in some time - years, perhaps.
Not only do I understand this from the male perspective (indeed, the revelation of it was as I'd imagine a last second reprieve from the Governor), I also empathize with and hail your advice for younger women. Advice that should be universally distributed. And your comments on how you'd hope to handle a husband's future mid-life crisis nearly caused me to leap from my chair in Joe Montana I-just-threw-another-touchdown-pass fashion.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
With the highest regards,
-T
Ada-
Thanks so much for your humorous and apt insights. I've been running around too much lately and started confusing skimming with reading. Your article slowed me down and kept me in it. About the story (and me): I'm 33, and after years of dating a baggage loaded 33 year-old woman, I've unintetionally ended up dating women in their early to mid twenties. Though I felt a little weird at first (well- really just with Ms 22- "hey wait--is your place a dorm?") - after hearing stories about how their peer boyfriends treated them, I started feeling better. I empathize with their angst and issues of life direction- and they give me back some of that "let's hit the road" spirit. Speaking of angst and spirit- you've gotta check out Bill Murray in ,"A Life Aquatic," such lonesome eyes.
Thanks for the story ------ Theo
Synced neuroses do not a long-term commitment make. Bravo to any two souls who can have a meaningful exchange, however, it seems that "growing up" on the part of either the older man or younger woman would dissolve the basis of this particular sort of union. It's time-limited salvation, at the end of which you are left with the question of who your life partner might ultimately be, when you aren't so self-indulgent and insecure.
I did this, me, a single,(fairly youngish) 36, dating an 18 year-old. She was only in the country for a few months but we had a very sweet time, she was calming, I was attentive, and while the reality of her departure and our age difference hovered in the remote background, our syncronicity was more a matter of sared basic human elements than anything else. Our emotional and physical inclinations were similar enough to be complimentary but different enough to remain interesting, and there was the way she so was strongly able to dream whereas I knew a bit more about how to leverage dreams into reality.
Were she 28+, we might have tried to figure out a way to make it last, as it was, when it was time for her to leave, she left. But it was a mutually rewarding exprience and one of the sweetest relationships I've ever had.
We say hello by email every once in a while but we've both moved on with no ill reprecussions. My conclusion therefore was that this type of relationship does indeed have a worse rap than it deserves.
MF
Thanks for the article,
I feel understood...a guy wandering around the internet looking for something to catch his mind. I could not stop reading your work partially because I identify with both you and the old guy (I am the old guy). I believe women and men are more alike than different if they could just reflect for a nanosecond...empathy and companionship mixed with occasional mindblowing monkey love. Thanks for the interlude.
Nice job Ada. Judging by the previous feedback of the middle-aged men below, you have just provided them with justification for their lascivious behavior. I am sentencing you to 40 lashes with a limp noodle from the feminist dominatrix club.
As for "the classical view of the subject, expressed in great literature for the last thousand years," something like this view is common even in places that don't have literature yet! Hence those places having so few perky 20-year-old women with youthful 20-year-old men. At 20 she's already been worn out by 6 or 7 pregnancies, at 20 he still can't afford to pay anyone's father a bride price. Hmm...
Wonderfully written Ada. If more women could remain the wonderous girlfriend and not the wearying spouse older men and younger women wouldn't need each other. Aquamarine necklaces beget Mikasa crystal which beget bigger houses which beget more designer furniture. Is it any wonder he doesn't want to go inside? He might find more money spent.
The simple needs of younger women are what draw men to them as much as the youth or beauty. Yes, we can teach them something too.
wow, the feedback about this article is staggering. it's hilarious, really.... as if the women are the only ones who become the wearying spouses. i can't believe that there's no one in this readership that isn't thinking it's the men who become wearying spouses, too, instead of adoring, interested lovers. get a grip.
Well, apparently my lecherous appeal for young nubile flesh has been justified...by a woman no less. Next thing you know, she'll be telling me that I really should have dated all those MILFs back when I was a lifeguard at the local country club.
Hey, there is someone on this forum who thinks men can become wearying spouses too. I mean, remember the "At 20 she's already been worn out by 6 or 7 pregnancies" example I posted earlier? In most of those cases it's because an man literally became a wearying spouse - wearing out his teenage girl wife by constantly getting her pregnant.
As a 17 year old girl who swoons over people like Liam Neeson, Anderson Cooper and Alan Rickman, I totally connected with this essay. I'm glad it was written.
This was a wonderful article! I've always been older than people my age and never really fit in. Whenever I try to date guys my age, I feel like I'm going out with a child! Only when I'm with someone who's in their 30's, 40's, or even a little older do I feel comfortable. And I completely agree that most of this "feminist" literature is complete BS. There's a huge double standard nowadays that seems to make it perfectly fine for a woman to boss a man around and emasculate him, while if a man shows a back bone, it's seen as him trying to be domineering or controlling. Does anyone ever notice how women get so upset when a man goes to a strip club, but it seems perfectly all right for women to go to a male strip club? It's seen as so-called "girl power" or "girls just having fun". Women need to wake up and get a clue.
If HT thinks feminism is so much BS then why does she choose to be with someone and preferring the 30s-40s age range in the first place? Isn't choosing who you date, and having your own sexual preferences, far more feminist than just letting your father or grandfather choose your man for you?
Most nerve articles suck,IMO
But this one was great. What a smart young babe.
Thanks
Wow - it really does take all sorts. When I was a fresh young 18-year-old, I ran a mile when a man over 25 so much as looked at me. What can I say? I like my lovers to be my peers, and still do now that I'm in my 30s. Its interesting that the author considers herself too old for older men now, though. I wonder if the men think they're too old for her, too.
Ernest Hemingway's Across the River and Into the Trees gives a lovely perspective.
I find that there is still a double-standard when it comes to younger men/older women vs. younger women/older men. Our society still has a long way to go in appreciating the "older woman" much the same way we consider men to get "better" as they get older. On a related note, I also find it interesting that 99% of the photography on this site focuses on the FEMALE form. As "cool and cutting-edge" as this site tries to be, it still perpetuates a lot of tired sexual stereotypes... that only the female form is attractive.... that women are the center of all things sexual, etc.
Personally I think the older guys/younger girls thing is perverse and fucked up and just because a woman who agrees with it writes a well written article in favor of it it doesnt somehow justify it. All those old pervs out there jumping for joy after reading it can step up and give me a BJ and then fuck off. Just because certain younger women are nieve and easily enamored by older guys with more experience/ money/ success or whatever than their peers doesn't make it OK, and to take advantage of their weaknesses for those types of things so they can fuck someone more than half their age is sick and fucked up. I am a guy and when I'm 50 years old I'm going to take my Viagra and fuck my 50 year old gorlfriend and suck it up because thats life. Fuck you sick old bastards and fuck you to the stupid bitches that condone that shit.
Good topic--young women, older men. When I was 38 I was involved with a woman of 20. I was divorced, no kids; she was single and loved the beach. It was lust, really, as we had sex all over my house, on the pool deck, in the kitchen. Sex and sandwiches, as Joey once said on Friends, kept us together for awhile. She liked Pina Coladas ("Penis coladas" to her) and I moonlighted in a beach liquor store where I met many hot babes. As a friend once said, young women are great, as they are often avid learners sexually and their stories are so short! Kerry enjoyed playful spanking and bondage, and she enjoyed seeing ourselves in mirrors we placed around us in the bedroom and on the pool deck. Her previous boyfriends often were too fast for her, and none liked woman on top sex or doggie style humping. She became an expert fellatrix in a few weeks! She often kidded me about having her hot girlfriend join us for a threesome as I often imagined her watching us in the doorway naked, coming over to the bed and slapping Kerrys firm creamy buns before she insert me into her! It never happened, much to my regret.
On older men, young women: MSNBC on 3-24-05 reported on the "Appeal of Amateur Porn" among digital camera users. We've come a long way from Polaroids and tripods! The site voyeurweb.com dwells on the explosion of how willing many women are to be exhibitionists. I frequented Blacks Beach north of San Diego back in 1971, before it became an official "clothing optional" beach from 1974 to 1977. Other than a few voyeurs on the bluffs above with binoculars, cruisers with cameras were rare. With the advent of camera phones, women are hesitant to be seen naked down there. Sure, one sees hot sexy couples flaunting it all sometimes, but many have joined nudist resorts (one has many singles) instead of being hassled by photobugs. Hell, young women are desirable by many men because their stories are so short. The 70s were a sexual paradise in many ways, as hooking up seemed much less complicated than now. But, I have been asked to join others at a pool party, often to snap pictures of couples fooling around nude. Anyone notice "Elimidate" at 6pm on TV? Talk about casual sex!
I'm glad I read this. For the past few years of my teenage life I've been smitten with men much older than me, and I've never been attracted to boys my age (not intellectually or anything anyway).
i agree with ada. im quite taken by a single 39 yr old at the moment, we have so much in common; "two drifters off to see the world" but am not sure he'd ever consider me; at 23 im worried he might think the age gap too much.
indeed, I'm not quite middle age(28) and I find myself attracted to teenage girls much more so than older women.
It has nothing to do with "power imbalance" or any other cliche of may december romances. I enjoy their company, their beauty, and passion for life.
Is that such a bad thing? I know their are legions of men similar to myself out there who wouldn't dare speak up for fear of societal rebuke which brings me to a famous quote...
"live your own life, for you will surely die your own death".
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but
Whoah, can you say "Dad complex"?
Do you really have to choose between the "teenage self" and the "wearying spouse"? It sounds like you're substituting one trap for another.(By "you" I mean "people").
Adaptability is a better friend than self-absorption...but the one we so frequently neglect.
By all means "live your own life",Karo.And don't expect,of course,the endorsement of others.
Discretion is one of those double-edged things--you want to thumb your nose at it sometimes before suffering the consequences of disregarding it.
older guy.loved your article.Its about damn time older guys are labeled as weird.sick for the liking the beauty and charm of your girls.Thanks for the article.it gives me hope
Ada,
as a big fan of Richard Ford, I'm glad you "get" him. And the truth is that, as one of those middle-aged men whose wife divorced him years ago, I made the mistake of beginning my dating life with women 10 to 15 years younger, and it ruined me in what some call shallow ways...the smoother skin, the brighter eyes, the less-judgmental and not nearly so fearful queries about "where's this headed" that routinely erupt from a 49 year old woman's lips.
I tried to switch to women that came of age as I did in the late 70s, but to no avail. Call me any number of names, but absent lightning striking, I'll accept the charge of an angry female classmate at my 30th high school reunion: That I'm likely to end life alone and miserable...in the meantime, I'll take my chances.
Your writing is simple great, Especially for beginners!
You can creat mirrow of your site on blogger. It's really more comfortable for users
Px10b2 Pleased to read intelligent thoughts in Russian. I`ve been living in England for already 5 years...
The age gap is really no more significant than you or she make it. I've had same age lovers and much younger lovers and age just becomes a variable that can separate you or not, just like religion, friends, hobbies. It really depends on how each person chooses to see it. But the important thing is don't allow other people to influence your decisions. Just get real clear with yourself and follow your heart and you'll be fine.
Now you say something