This is how my friend Jon described sex with his wife, post-baby: "Like your nice old aunt taking her twelve-year old nephew to see the latest Vin Diesel movie. She's just being kind." "I never thought I'd say this," said another friend, a thirty-two-year-old male with no children. "But I'm bored with pornography."
My friends' sex lives are dwindling. It's partially age, mostly babies. Maybe reaching the I've-done-it-10,000-times mark at age thirty-five has a psychological effect on a person. You feel like a soldier who has thoroughly conquered the foreign land . . . why keep pushing it? (How did I come up with my figures, you ask? Why, I'll tell you! In the late teens, one gets it on an average of once a day lack of location precludes that "once" from being "seventeen times" then, twice a day throughout the early twenties; back to once daily in the latter half of that decade periods of no boy/girlfriend along with sudden fear of sex with strangers bring the average down; a sojourn of thrice a day at some point around age thirty; and then we're down to maybe every other day, as other things like the realization that one does need sleep every so often hedge our time.) For me, the end of sex was a sharp and sudden cessation. It came the day my daughter, Sadie, was born. Of course, I hadn't been having sex for the last six months of my pregnancy: my husband believed that the fetus might see his big thing and be scared. (I was scared not to see it. There's all this extra blood pulsing during pregnancy, including Down There. I was thinking about penises and the things they do all day long. I had my way with myself at every opportunity, whenever I wasn't throwing up or sleeping and sometimes when I was.)
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Sex had been the main component of my personality. Then it was gone without a trace.
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When the baby finally came and our six-week waiting period was over, I thought I'd find relief at last. Except I didn't want it anymore. From the minute Sadie was born, I had zero sex drive. More like negative-one drive. I could see no reason why anyone would engage in sex, ever. I vaguely remembered that, in my previous life, I was interested in sticking a spongy-yet-taut, protruberant section of another person's body into any crevice of mine. I knew that I was thinking about it a lot. But what had I been thinking? For a decade and a half, sex had been the main component of my career, even of my personality. Then it was gone without a trace. Doing it seemed like as compelling an idea as, say, jumping up and down fourteen times mid-dinner: there was nothing wrong with it, but it just didn't seem to make any sense. I don't think I would have thought about this or thought about how I wasn't thinking about it had Nerve not asked me to write about it for the No Sex issue. I was too busy being happy with my little family. Because I was nursing, every two hours I was being infused with the hormones prolactin and oxycotin, and being denied estrogen. Oxytocin is a mellower. It has rid me of insomnia, of worry, of my work ethic and my sex drive. I don't fantasize. I don't masturbate. I don't flirt with the UPS guy. (And you're supposed to nurse for at least a year I think this is Nature's way of spacing children. Someone forgot to tell Nature about the Pill. ) Let's break it down: I've had sex ten times in the six months since Sadie was born — like Jon's wife, just to be nice. Each time, it was like I was ironing clothes. That interesting. Fatherhood had an effect on Dave too. I realized this during our first time, post-Sadie. As usual, I started talking about bringing a big hairy man home from the gym, while Dave hid in the closet watching. This was our favorite scenario: it used to make my husband's penis go from zero to sixty in under four seconds. But this time, Dave interrupted me. "I feel more
traditional now," he said. Before the baby, Dave never was sure of his sexual identity. He couldn't visualize himself as a sexual being, on top of me, thrusting away. He'd always picture someone else, someone far more masculine (i.e. hairier, fatter and dumber). But now that he was a father and, since I was taking a few months off work, a breadwinner previously, I had always made more than he did his identity was secure. His penis had purpose. For him, the trappings and subterfuges of sex fell by the wayside. It happened the moment he saw Sadie slip out of my body, open her eyes and look around. In that moment, she became real, and my husband became something all the sex in the world had never made him: A man. An adult. And we all know adults have regular old boring missionary sex, right? Except it doesn't work that way for me. I've always accepted myself as a mother; that was one part of my makeup. But I knew that I was still a prevert. (That's this thing even sleazier than a pervert. When you say prevert, you've got to sort of flatten and lengthen your lips, and look sideways when you say it.) If I were interested in sex now, it would still be weird and dirty sex. Dave and I go to the dirty movie theatre and watch the woman on the screen get come splashed on her face while we wondered, pantingly, if the men roaming the hall with their things in their hands might gang-rape my man.
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When the single mom does get out, she's often far worse than a teenager.
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What's the most important thing about the above scenario? Location, location, location. We would be out of the house, in a place where no children are allowed, ever. Since Dave and I don't want to put Sadie in daycare, she's always underfoot. That didn't matter with my first child. Born eight years ago, he didn't tame my sex life at all. In fact, my most lascivious moments came in the years after his birth, probably because I had him at twenty-six. (The closer a woman gets to thirty, the more she bursts like . . . I was going to make a flower analogy, but a water balloon, thrown from a rooftop, exploding mid-air and spraying all passersby, seems a better metaphor.) My son wasn't breast-fed. And because my husband and I had separated when our baby was one, I was a single mom with a lot of responsibility. You see, when the single mom does get out, she's often far worse than a teenager. Since I, like most moms, believed that protecting my baby meant keeping him away from men who might drift out of our lives again, I never even introduced him to my dates. On weekend's, my son's father or his grandparents would babysit him, and I could roam. My sex life became more separated from my home life my real life than it ever was, pre-baby, and the sordid elements grew more exaggerated. I went on trips: to New York, Ohio, L.A., Sweden. The further I got from New Hampshire and my little boy, the more of a prevert I became. I started writing for Nerve. I did cocaine. I met Dave. (That first night, I was wearing holographic pants and a silver puffy coat. I tried to make out with him by force, told him I was pure evil, then accidentally threw up on him. Not exactly indicative of how things would turn out one marriage and an infant later, when I can't even watch scary movies with him.) During our courtship, I took Dave to swingers' clubs and strange, childless girls' houses. Once we were married, the momentum was still there. I fought becoming conservative, and because Dave didn't consider himself my son's dad — my son already had a dad; Dave was more like a big brother/friend — none of us saw ourselves in traditional roles. In fact, mere days after our wedding, I took him to a prostitute. Then along came Sadie. I know my situation isn't unique. A lot of my friends are perverts, and a lot of these preverts are starting to have children. (My childless friends tend to have drinking problems instead. As the years go by, alcohol will take up nearly as much time, money and emotional energy as children do what was an initiator of sex in college is nowa big sex killer.) To us, the fascinating realization is that there can be an end of sex at all. We had never contemplated that. But now I see it everywhere. Even Jack Nicholson, that ultimate sleaze-bo, recently admitted he was sometimes happy to sleep alone. He described the cessation of carnal passions as "liberating." I see where he's coming from. The sex drive, at its base, is about longing and restlessness and a search for completion. Sex promises this but never delivers. Each time you do it if it's good you should be left with more longing. But then, a day comes when you feel happy. You don't want any more completion. You don't feel itchy anymore. Those old, dead Greeks were always talking about that — how freeing it is to be rid of one's ties to the body, to be a pure spirit. The Sufis too. But it's not just intellectuals or religious people who eventually succumb to inevitability. On the Jerry Springer Show, this fifty-year-old woman offered a compelling argument to the fifty-year-old man who complained to her, "Back when you was running around, you'd give me sex every night of the week — be rubbing up on me and puttin' your fingers in my hair." She said: "Ain't no damn reason to have it more'n once a week."
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I'm liberated, finally, from being a sex writer: from seducing you into imagining my lair, and me.
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I'm with that lady now, and fat old Jack Nicholson and the dead Greeks. I am liberated from sex. I've discovered much that has nothing to do with seduction or taboo-breaking experimentation. There's the thrill of gardening: making an enormous vegetable come out of a little seed, then eating that enormous vegetable. There are dinner parties, where you make people happy and they talk about interesting things, then they go home and you get to watch something on TV. There's sledding, swimming and dancing. I mean, there always was sledding, swimming and dancing, but somehow The Hunt was such an important element of those activities, they became almost work. Frankly, I don't care if you think gardening is dumb and I got boring. I know that my battles with the groundhog (which bit my son, requiring five series of rabies shots with a very long needle) and my victory over the strawberry-sucking slugs are truly exciting, even if I'm the only one who thinks so. Six years after I started writing for Nerve, I'm liberated, finally, from being a sex writer: from seducing you into imagining my lair, and me. Of course, I may soon have to eat my words, as I often do. That "Stop" sign sticking out of my vagina might soon meld into a "Yield." Perhaps sex has the nature of the phoenix: it must die in order to rise boldly from the ashes of itself. Lately, I have reason to believe this mysterious sex thing may be preparing itself to arise, in all its complexity and humbling madness, within me again. These last couple of weeks ever since Sadie started having a little bowl of cereal and one jar of baby food per day sexual references have started reappearing in my dreams. Last night I dreamt I was giving my friend Rachel a ride to her gynecologist appointment, which she described as getting her "Yankee Doodle yanked." "I never heard the expression 'Yankee Doodle' for It before," I said. "My dad came up with that, so as to not embarrass me," Dream Rachel replied. "And these" grabbing her breasts "are my dandies." I told Dave about my dream. It gave him hope. That night, as we lay in bed, he snuck a hand where it didn't belong. He was hoping that the extra-large serving of pureed squash he'd fed Sadie that day, and the two breastfeedings it replaced, would be enough to make me want to have sex again. But it wasn't, and we fell asleep happy. n°
©2003 Lisa Carver and Nerve.com |
Commentarium (49 Comments)
congratulations, Lisa (and Dave). Your article left me sad, and wistful, and very very conflicted. The idea of losing sex, losing the need for it is about as appealing as losing my hair. But, as with all things, I suppose I'll just embrace it when it arrives, like an old friend returning.
hapiness is subjective.
Lame lame lame.
Wow, thank you! I was up late once again with really hardcore insomnia, and I was sort of surfing 'round, looking for something to make me sleepy, since half a handful of pills just wasn't doing the trick. Anyway, now, after reading this navel-gazing thing, I'm yawning my head right the hell off...so I'm going to hurry away to bed now, where I know I will sleep exactly like a giant freakin' log.
Loved this. Love to step away from the horrific marketing of myself in the nerve personals to realize I'm not all about simply sex and trying to look good.
Pretty typical. Libertine/scenester/hipster settles down. Oldest story in the world. Now must we suffer many tedious essays on being "normal?" Hope not.
think of it this way, at least you can get a good night's sleep. i'd give you a couple of years until you are back to your old self with some twists and improvements...
I have been reading your work for a LONG time, all the Diaries, etc. I just turned 21 ( yeah, so I was under 18 for a lot of those... oops) and I got a boyfriend that is all sweet and normal, and it totally has knocked out my sex drive. No kids!! Ahhhh!! I can't even think about it. I used to be so EASY!! If only I were older and could make peace with it like you... sigh...
Or it could be that your crazy ideas helped me think of crazy ideas to make the whole sex thing more interesting.
when the kid is 9 or ten you'll be spreading like
never before. trust me
I loved it. It was beautiful, and though it could have been sad, it wasn't at all. Being content is a wonderful thing and I'm glad that you have that.
Good luck with your garden. Lately, I've been sans partner five days a week and have been releasing my frustrations into growing herbs for my cooking. It's wonderful, making something alive.
so true about the single mom doing it up like a teenager on her weekends off. i am in that spot right now, but am transitioning into the next phase: it's started with a simple idea...time to stop and rethink that pleated mini-skirt. even if i am 27 and look 19, i still need to wear a sensible skirt length while chasing after my 4 year old in the park.
this is a fantastic article. i am a 23 year old female who just can't get enough sex, but at the same time is all too keenly aware that somewhere in the wee future there is probably an expiration date on it. to me this article is just one more vote for the "life is in the process" idea.
Here's more of the process, from my angle (I'm 60)(baby wasn't born till I was 39). Absolute cessation of sexual feelings for men and could ONLY look at babies: 5 years. Late birth of feminism, bad menopause begins, only interested in women, no deeds: 5 years. Fixing life, menopause getting under control, wanting other men( 2nd marriage worseening), no deeds (with anybody) - 5 years. Found other men, left husband, daughter grown and marvelous, best sex of my life or that I can imagine - last 5 years and continues. This may be a much longer trajectory with much longer sections than many women will have -- let's hope so -- but the point is, SEX DOES NOT END WHEN YOUR BABY IS BORN.
What a teriffic article -- bang on the money! Lisa, you've proven yourself once again to be an astute participant in life, laying open its wonder for us all to consider more clearly. Thank you!
Someone in here called Lisa a "hipster." Lisa is not a hipster, she's prehipster. Libertine, though, is a possible moniker.
Yawn. If I don't want sex, I just ask my wife. Sound familiar? Congratulations, you just got old.
Welcome to BORINGville.
Gee, I wonder what would make Lisa Carver lose the desire to write? 'Cause that would be so awesome, if she finally stopped rambling on about every minute detail of her tedious life. Meanwhile, if I could teach my pet gerbil how to type, I'm pretty sure he'd have about ninety-thousand more interesting things to say than Ms. Carver, whether she's gettin' any or not.
nice to know I am not alone. And nice to hear your positive version on it since my marriage with kids and no sex drive just ended - now with kids 5 and 7 my sex drive is back and in overdrive, more creative than ever! After about 7 years of almost no sex while I was happy about it, I have had a lion's share - been with younger men, a much older man, and wow - men are AMAZING "out there" these days ~ nice reminder for me that a possible future relationship might include babies and no excellent sex for a while AND might stay positive too.
Bummer that some here dont want to "suffer" through more "normal" "boring" writing - I find this educational, important, and if ya dont like it, dont read it! it's good to be prepared for anything you or your partner might go through someday.
Ms. Carver is always capable of taking a vague look at the obvious. The self-absorption leads her to believe every waking moment, every errant thought in her brain rattling around like a BB in a tuna fish can, is somehow mind boggling or unique.
None of this is new.
Awright, now, I'm reading all the feedback about this piece, and it strikes me that there's a whole lotta bitching about the author doing what she's always done -- writing up the details of her life. If it ain't your bag, can't you just stop fucking reading her stuff, instead of coming in and bitching about her doing what she's always done?
Goddamnit, I could maybe understand it if you clicked on "This Week in Sex" and got a long erotic poem ... but you can't bitch at TWIS for being another roundup of sex in the news, and you can't bitch at Lisa for writing about her life. That shit ain't reasonable!
i thought it was beautiful lisa.
People can have their opinions, but dude, if you say LC is boring, you obviously haven't read the majority of her work. I still have to go buy the Diaries...
What a huge vocabulary you've got, RM.
testosterone gel, e.g. Testim, rubbed on the bean and the labes might make you randy as a billy goat. it is available in europe. talk to a doctor first...
of course, you might enjoy the nonsexual aspects of your life...
i hear testosterone gel may cause birth defects in fetuses.
you really need to talk to a doctor if you are going to consider using it.
it's the no-sex issue you idiots.
I continue to be impressed at how no one bothers to tell women about the postpartum libido drop (especially when one is breastfeeding) until after it happens. Funny how how pregnancy, birth and their effects on the body are inextricably linked to sex, and still the general populace knows next to nothing about these subjects.
I think that we're more biologically driven than we tend to give ourselves credit for. The human intellect has such a large ego - especially if one is the type who bridges their intellect to their libido. I know I do.
But we're animals when fucking, and animals when birthing and our bodies remember everything about species propegation that we keep forgetting and/ or defying and/ or neglecting (I sometimes wonder if our collective biological unconsciousness will figure out what we've been up to with The Pill, and do something the sabotage it). I'm fairly convinced that our libidos drop postpartum to keep people from neglecting their young because they've gotten into it with their rut buddy. Cute as babies are, without the aid of certain chemical assistants in the parents, baby might get re-prioritized in the same way that meetings with friends, arriving to work on time, breakfast, dinner, classes and numerous other Need-to, Have-tos have been.
I could go on, but then I'd be here all night. I don't know what you do with "Feedback," but if you care to respond - doulatena@yahoo.com.
Um, aod? You maybe wanna edit your comments next time? You know, before you hit the "send" button?
as per the last poster, its amazing to me that this self obsessed ex-libertine is clueless abt the obvious adaptive advantages of there being a libido drop after birth. duh!
and her claim to being happy that she ends on "methinks the ex slut doth protest too much
About that adaptive effect: Yes, but wouldn't nature then take sex drive away from the new father as well? I've heard of couples breaking up in the first year of the baby's life, largely because the woman never wants to have sex anymore. And it is to the child's advantage to have the dad around. There are some hormones -- mainly estrogen, I believe -- the dad sort of ABSORBS if he's hugging the pregnant woman at night and then the baby when it pops out. Scientists have measured this recently.
I am probably one of hundreds of women who was steered here by a loving husband. It took me 2 days to find a moment when my 6 year old wasn't peering over my shoulder and my 3 yaer old's croup was under control... But, here I am and glad to have read of Lisa's post-baby libido. With my first child, I was still randy and naughty, my husband and I barely waited the 4 weeks for the all clear before we jumped back in to once a day love-making. But after the second, it became more difficult to manufacture the time and energy. we find ourselves scheduling in a way I find troubling, after the kids go to bed, before Paradise Hotel we have an hour...I think, I hope that its cyclical, I know I have many more mad romps in me.
Sure, it's the brestfeeding's lovely hormones (the booby buzz! feels so nice, doesn't it? like you've been smoking weed for days and just maintaining this light high where you're floating several inches off the ground) but it's also the lack of sleep and the fact there is a little being who needs you every minute of the day.
Let Dave have a taste too. My ex-husband (husband at the time) delighted in suckling my new rounded breasts. And, it WILL turn you on too! This is what the OB/GYN never tells you about. Have fun!
And, the sex drive does return, as you surmised. Like a tidal wave. And, just when you've hit your stride, your husband finds his favorite easy chair. By now, he's found a new power dynamic. Breadwinner. He won't know what hits him when you take him in that Laz-Y-Boy.
~Tigerswallowtail
Who are these men that refuse to fuck their pregnant partners? My wives would practically rape me in the final months, as if I wasn't willing enough. Perhaps all of this chaste squeamishness is some Calvinistic WASP hangup? Fear of what???Ignorance of sexuality?...Biology? Interestingly, this seems to be a problem for the educated classes. Intellect in opposition to libido.
hi lisa -i like your story..i think i hit my prime like those sufi's or whatever just a few days ago...i have not had sex in over three years but now i don't care and there is no reason for me to seek danger in between the cracks...
steve p.
Bravo! Really enjoyed the article. So True...but wait it does come back!..give it time. -experienced male in Cleveland
i thought it was a waste of virtual ink lisa.
Another thing that causes birth defects in fetuses: being the product of self-obsessed pseudo-artists who junk up the planet with inane little 'zines and diaries and really bad music.
So as she approaches middle age, Lisa finds herself "liberated" from her former sexual persona. Fine and good for her, but what should a husband *who's still extremely interested in sex* do if motherhood has taken away his wife's formerly-robust sex drive? Cry? Masturbate? Give up? Cheat?
Young men know their wives will age, and they know they'll be distracted by the children. But NOBODY tells young single men to expect their wife to someday utterly lose interest in sex, permanently.
Bra-veaux
Hey PJ - Nobody tells them that because it's not true. The loss of interest in sex is not permanent, unless there is a more serious issue going on. If these guys absolutely gotta have it, it would make sense that they masturbate as often as they'd like, and maybe, if they balance the work of taking care of the kids enough, maybe their wives will occasionally have enough energy to be interested in jerking them off, of even giving them blow-jobs. If a man is patient with his wife's post-partum lack of libido, she'll probably remember it very kindly later on.
I have to say, I'm a bit taken aback by the rancor of these responses. I wonder if it isn't a bit threatening to read about Lisa Carver, LISA FUCKING SUCKDOG, is no longer interested in sex.
I certainly never got to enjoy as much or as interesting of a sex life as Lisa, and the idea that it might just sort of end just when I'm getting good at it is frightening.
I suppose some of this is just the simple fact that 22-year-olds could care less about what old people do. And people looking to get off were surely disappointed.
I loved this piece. I still don't buy that its the hormones or whatever. But I appreciate Lisa sharing her life and her secrets with me. She rules.
I enjoyed this piece...but where were the editors?? There are typos throughout!
Thought this was terrific. I would call this one of the bravest things she's written if she had addressed what I thought was a key area: given this couple's well-documented, hyperactive, multi-faceted sex life, what happens to him? Are prostitutes still cool when she's not horny? How flexible is she still prepared to be in the face of his (presumably ongoing) needs? Maybe that's the next essay.
Lisa,
Good luck with your garden and every other wonderful new thing growing in your life, but please keep writing, no matter what the topic. You're an excellent writer regardless of the current vogue to write about sex. You don't need a sultry subject to keep me and many others reading.
And most importantly, go get that goddamn groundhog! They are a scourge to gardeners and small children everywhere!
Regards,
A Devoted Reader
'exactly' to the last feedbacker. it's very refreshing and reassuring to read lisa talking truth and sense within hugely idiotic culture that preaches no sex to people who want it (kids) and sex sex sex to those who maybe don't (adults -whatever age/stage). the idea of trying desperately to hold on to an urge that makes you desperate and panting on a yo-yo...why do we buy into it!>? obviously repression isn't an answer, sex can be very great and interesting etc. but things do change and there are other ways to read the world with those changes...and i certainly want to read it thru lisa's! please tell more about your dreams and your garden and your plants. i'd rather read your take on life however it hits you (and you hit it) than some hipsterish hitlerish nonsense about fucking the pain away liberation (enslavement)
i liked this because it's such a good observation. i'm only 21 and i've experienced many peaks and drops in my sex drive. ovarian cysts, the morning after pill, too much homework, total contempt for anyone with a dick, birth control, anti depressants...having cabbage for lunch, all those things effect the sex drive. i can only imagine what the toal upheaval of the female body during pregnancy and birth and post-birth would do. its beautiful how our bodies know better than we do. it's silly how some people get good and mad over self expression on the internet, typos, and natural hormonal and attitudenal changes in worldview. thats right: attitudenal. also, whats all this adolescentesque bashing of social norms, being normal, embracing the role of the family? get off the internet and send your parents a thankyou card and a check repaying them for the last time they bailed you out. if you didnt have a loving family, isntt hat something to think about when you have children? and dont bash gardening and other little pleasures until you've tried them. hehe, or just go drink espresso till your angst wears off.
I read "the Lisa diaries" this past week and then made out with someone in it. I feel like I'm you somtimes, I never want to meet you, but I love reading your life. Your husband was right, I almost puked a few times whilst reading.
-----oh yeh and I know someone will have something stupid to say about that post, so here is a pre-stupid post reply, "shut up stupid".
I <3 LC 4 EVA
Don't worry, Lisa - you're still on the hormonal rollercoaster. You'll bounce back in time. The key thing to remember is that the urge for sex comes from an adolescent desire to be physically, mentally, and emotionally close to someone else, and sex is the best barrier-breaking way to do it. Babies burst through all that because they're mentally, physically, and emotionaly naked with you WITHOUT fucking. Of course sex feels a little de-prioritised at the moment. But your taste for it will come back.
Now you say something